1066 CPU in T61 without BSEL mod

[dimamyth]

Hello everyone.

I have some spare CPUs with 1066 BUS (T9600 and P9600), and I want to use it in my T61 (15,4" with intel gfx). Middleton bios is flashed at the moment. When I put the T9600 into socket, after power on the T61 runs its fan once, then LEDs on display (BT, and several others) flashes, then the Thinkpad turns off without even POST or any beeps.

As far as I understand, there's no microcode in the Middleton BIOS for that CPU, so the machine can't start.

I found some T61 BIOSes with Penryn support on the german forum (https://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/anlei ... en.172581/). I think, I can flash it into my T61, but I don't want to do any solder works on the mobo.

So, the question is: if will the T9600 run on my T61 with new BIOS?

As I understand, it can run with 800 MHz bus and original multiplier (if it will start at all), i.e. for T9600 frequency will be 2,6*800=2100 MHz instead of original 2800 MHz. Now my T61 uses T7500 CPU, and it's a hot thing. Underclocked 45-nm Penryn will definetely be cooler, I suppose.

[unixed]

Welcome to the forum!

Yes you do need the microcode for that CPU and the first image of the list on the linked page suffices. However it is not sufficient, although you can avoid soldering. You need the datasheet for the CPU, identify the BSEL pins, look at what sequence is for 800MHz FSB, then use fine wire to connect the corresponding socket holes to suitable surrounding ones to achieve that ID sequence.

Yes a 2.8 GHz CPU will run at 2.1 GHz and a lot cooler than a Merom CPU.

[dimamyth]

Many thanks for the answer! I'll give it a try.

[kfzhu1229]

Hello everyone.

I have some spare CPUs with 1066 BUS (T9600 and P9600), and I want to use it in my T61 (15,4" with intel gfx). Middleton bios is flashed at the moment. When I put the T9600 into socket, after power on the T61 runs its fan once, then LEDs on display (BT, and several others) flashes, then the Thinkpad turns off without even POST or any beeps.

As far as I understand, there's no microcode in the Middleton BIOS for that CPU, so the machine can't start.

I found some T61 BIOSes with Penryn support on the german forum (https://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/anlei ... en.172581/). I think, I can flash it into my T61, but I don't want to do any solder works on the mobo.

If you want T9600 to work in T61 at 800Mhz FSB, and without soldering, you have to change BSEL1 state to high (so that it is read as a 1) via a wire connecting 2 pins inside the CPU socket. I personally used a 32AWG solid core wire, which is the thickest wire you can go, but thinner is better.
I am not going to confuse you with all the technical details, but I think it would be more helpful if you refer to my photo that I did to a XPS M1330 to also connect BSEL1 to high and hence 1066 -> 800
(1066's configuration is BSEL0, BSEL1, BSEL2 = 0, 0, 0)
(800's configuration is BSEL0, BSEL1, BSEL2 = 0, 1, 0)
Here is the picture (PLEASE, triple check where the triangle corner of the socket is so you don't destroy your motherboard!)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuILfFUnTy5cgTkjACVugWmnI_ac

But then again, if you are to do the full 1066 mod, the hardware mod is not any more complicated than this but rather there is a way you can get away with a dollar store soldering iron and a 1KOhm thru hole resistor and no traces cut or jumpers in the socket. But you have to tinker with RAM timings of course.

[dimamyth]

Hmm, that simple?

Thanks a lot for the explanation! I thought, it's a something much more complicated. I'm not afraid of software mods and flashing, but I want to keep my old Thinkpads in a mint, near stock condition.

I use them time to time for simple tasks that they do well - typing big texts, putty-ing to remote servers, linux console works, programming, etc.

But if there's an opportunity to make these perfect black bricks a bit faster and cooler, then I'd better try

[kfzhu1229]

Hmm, that simple?

Thanks a lot for the explanation! I thought, it's a something much more complicated. I'm not afraid of software mods and flashing, but I want to keep my old Thinkpads in a mint, near stock condition.

I use them time to time for simple tasks that they do well - typing big texts, putty-ing to remote servers, linux console works, programming, etc.

But if there's an opportunity to make these perfect black bricks a bit faster and cooler, then I'd better try

To be honest my purpose for doing these FSB mods really is to get the most cost effective CPU options, where something like a Core 2 duo T6600/T8100 with 1066 overclock or a Core 2 duo P8800 is a better price option to T9300, and P9500/T9550/T9600 is a better price option to T9500.

To start the mod you need a BIOS flashed T61 (I thought Middleton should be fine for T9600 Penryn as well but do double-check), suitable CPU, at least one suitable SPD unlocked RAM of at least 667Mhz (800Mhz is better), any soldering iron, 1KOhm resistor, soldering wire and regular wire.

In addition to the native 1066Mhz T9x00 and Pxx00 series, I have also tested Core 2 duo T8100 and T6600 to be stable after 1066Mhz FSB of overclock without overvolting. It will run hot as a result but they are cheap and after the overclock to 2.8 and 2.93 they are plenty fast.

To check if your SPD is unlocked, download SPDTool, read the RAM stick, try to change harmless things like the datecode, then flash the dump and see if there are no verification errors and the datecode changes.
Save a copy of the original SPD info by using the save function, as well as selecting the timing summary on the bottom and then take a screenshot.
Then here I can give an explanation of my understanding of how the FSB mod works
By default, Intel Mobile 965 chipset can do either 533Mhz or 667Mhz DDR2 speeds, but the same speed with the clock generator FSB mod would result in 710Mhz and 880Mhz respectively. 710Mhz would only be truly stable if you make the RAM use the timings for 800Mhz profile, not the 533Mhz profile that it's using anyway
There are 2 ways to go about modding the SPD: Getting it to work with 880Mhz (800Mhz RAM only), or getting it to work with 710Mhz
The former is a lot easier but stability is not guaranteed if you have the 965GM integrated graphics - which sometimes can crash with 880Mhz memory. The latter is a lot harder and involves with changing a lot of variables.
My way of getting it to work with 880Mhz is to simply remove the 667Mhz profile by making it a 533Mhz profile, by changing Minimum clock cycle at CLX-1 to 3.75ns (267Mhz). This makes the laptop use the remaining 800Mhz profile but adapt it to 667Mhz, and give you stable RAM in most cases.

Making it to work with 710Mhz means heavy modifications to the SPD table. I start by changing the speeds of the 3 profiles to 266Mhz and 2x 200Mhz (so the laptop would ignore, or you can set them to undefined). See my pic for where those 3 spots are.
Then you have to do a bunch of calculations and match the 266Mhz profile's tCL, tRCD, tRP, tRAS, tRC timings to the original max speed's numbers (be it 333Mhz or 400Mhz)
266Mhz corresponds to 3.75ns and if you want a tCL timing of 5, you'd need to select 3.75*5=18.75ns (or 18ns is fine) into tCL. Repeat this to all those 5 timings and save a copy and then flash

Here is one of my working samples for 710Mhz:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuILfFUnTy5chXPhyCe ... 1?e=xeHPJE

Then after all this look at the other thread for hard wiring the BSEL pin to do the hard wiring mod. My personal preference is to do it this way: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=110620&p=865444#p864172

[dimamyth]

To be honest my purpose for doing these FSB mods really is to get the most cost effective CPU options, where something like a Core 2 duo T6600/T8100 with 1066 overclock or a Core 2 duo P8800 is a better price option to T9300, and P9500/T9550/T9600 is a better price option to T9500.

Thank you for such a detailed explanation!

So far, to be sure, I decided to start with the T9600 Penryn at 800 MHz, but the test failed again: I flashed the german BIOS (one without c2q APIC), but T9600 still did not started. Led's flash, fan turns on and off, screen black (no backlight). Then leds sleep/power/battery come on, CPU is heats up, but no POST, or error beep, nothing happens. When I press power button again, the "sleep" led turns off and the CPU stops heating.

So I wondering: are all the T61 mobos compatible with Penryn CPUs? As some list containing Penryn-compatible mobo FRU's was mentioned earlier here on the forum, am I wrong?

[unixed]

Did you bridge the bsel pins as in the photo kfzhu linked?

Any T61 mobo can run a Penryn CPU, just on some (referred to as "Merom" generally on the forum) you have to press the ESC key when you get an error message on startup. There is a difference in terms of reading a thermal CPU sensor, but that is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. You can check which mobo you have by removing the battery and reading the FRU but it's likely yours is not natively Penryn-compatible since you have a Merom CPU installed, although there can be exceptions. Flashing Middleton's or the modified version BIOS means you don't have to press ESC on startup.
Also, the T9600 uses different microcode than a T9500 (Penryn) for example, so the Penryn-compatibility (referring to the ability to run a T9500 for example) is not the issue except as referred to above.

[kfzhu1229]

So far, to be sure, I decided to start with the T9600 Penryn at 800 MHz, but the test failed again: I flashed the german BIOS (one without c2q APIC), but T9600 still did not started. Led's flash, fan turns on and off, screen black (no backlight). Then leds sleep/power/battery come on, CPU is heats up, but no POST, or error beep, nothing happens. When I press power button again, the "sleep" led turns off and the CPU stops heating.

Just doing this alone requires the jumper in the socket as I mentioned in the 2nd previous post: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuILfFUnTy5cgTkjACVugWmnI_ac
If you already did the hard wired 1066Mhz mod using methods for ThinkPad T61 and SPD flashed the RAM, then you do not need this jumper.
Otherwise, without this jumper you expose to the Northbridge your intent to install 1066Mhz FSB processor, the Northbridge will refuse to continue running and shut everything off (hence typical behaviour is on for a few seconds, no activity, then off. Tried this on anything from HP Compaq to Dells to Acers)

Also, the T9600 uses different microcode than a T9500 (Penryn) for example, so the Penryn-compatibility (referring to the ability to run a T9500 for example) is not the issue except as referred to above.

Hmm yeah I always suspected the 1066Mhz FSB T9xx0 (T9400 T9550 T9600 T9800 T9900) and P8x00/P9x00 use different microcodes than T9300/T9500, as doing the mod to my Acers (GL960 chipset mind you, with latest bios) fail when I stick in a P8800 or T9600 but worked with T6600 T8100 (both 800Mhz Penryn parts overclocked to 1066Mhz FSB) with 2.8/2.93Ghz, and works just fine stock with T9300, while most Dells and HP's work with the mod and P8800 with just the latest BIOS. I really thought Middleton should've included those Microcodes since they have to inject microcode anyway.

[unixed]

Yes, your inferences are correct regarding the microcode for the different FSB CPUs. Middleton does not touch the microcode, anything included or omitted is due to the official BIOS.

[kfzhu1229]

Yes, your inferences are correct regarding the microcode for the different FSB CPUs. Middleton does not touch the microcode, anything included or omitted is due to the official BIOS.

Okay that makes sense, I guess Middleton really just disables the thermal sense error message at startup to allow smooth operation of Penryn processors. Then yeah he might have to look into heavier modded BIOSes if he wishes to use the T9600 inside...
But then again Dell and HP typically injects microcode for Extreme X9000 and 1066Mhz Penryn processors for 965 laptops anyway, as I have plenty of Dell and HP laptops with 965GM/PM that are currently working with P8600 P8700 P8800's just on their latest BIOSes.