So, who's ready to take the covid-19 vaccine ?

[ajkula66]

Since when do members of the military decide which lawful orders to follow?

I think it is good sign that military people make independent decisions and not just follow the herd like sheep. They should always put their health and welfare front and centre.

This isn't on a battle ground and it shows critical thinking. They were soldiers and not slaves.

Antrax vaccine from a decade or so ago, anyone....

[mpcook]

Since when do members of the military decide which lawful orders to follow?

I think it is good sign that military people make independent decisions and not just follow the herd like sheep. They should always put their health and welfare front and centre.

This isn't on a battle ground and it shows critical thinking. They were soldiers and not slaves.

I guess there is a different type of military down under. Here in the US there is a chain of command, and military personnel do not get to pick and choose which lawful orders to follow.

[shawross]

I guess there is a different type of military down under. Here in the US there is a chain of command, and military personnel do not get to pick and choose which lawful orders to follow.

Our military is generally the same and the common aspect is they get their orders from shadowy individuals and groups who have an agenda. You only need to look at the Wars that have been waged lately and if those Wars don't make you scratch your head then you lack perspective.

There is no better example than Afghanistan and Iraq. Who do you think benefits from these wars? Who benefited from 911? Who wants the US to invade Iran?

Society has been programmed to accept that the military should just do what these shadowy groups want without thinking. Now all of society is being programmed to accept that they need to take experimental injections that don't appear to make viruses go away. But to the contrary the jabs appear to activate new variants.

It is time for all of society to raise their consciousness and just say no to tyrants and wannabe rulers.

[RealBlackStuff]

@shawross:
So we can take it that you believe this Covid-19 does not exist, and you socialise like before, without bothering to wear a mask?
What do you do when asked for an [according to you: who needs it] Covid-pass (or whatever they call them)?
You still hop on any plane like before?

[shawross]

So we can take it that you believe this Covid-19 does not exist, and you socialise like before, without bothering to wear a mask?

COVID obviously exists but I don't agree with the standard line about what causes the virus or the variants. I don't have morbidity concerns and I am not scared of getting any variant of COVID.

My socialising hasn't been affected and only last month I was in a large crowd of about 10,000 people. I have a mask exemption and if I need jabs to fly in their planes then I will be staying on the ground in Australia.

I am in sunny Perth and we have been lucky here without many lockdowns.

[Ibthink]

But to the contrary the jabs appear to activate new variants.

Another anti-vaxxer lie. The vaccines hinder virus circulation. Variants are not "activated", they mutate in populations with no immunity - the unvaxxed. The latest Omikron variant likely developed in South Africa, a low-vaccination country with many immuno-compromised HIV patients. Because the immune system of such patients can not defeat the virus, it can linger in them for months, mutating in the process. That can only be stopped by vaccinating those immuno-compromised people regularily.

experimental injections that don't appear to make viruses go away

An endemic situation would be reached, if 100 % were vaccinated. But because ~20 % or more in many countries believe unscientific anti-vaxx lies, the pandemic situation continues. So thank you and all other anti-vaxxers for dragging this out.

[shawross]

Another anti-vaxxer lie. The vaccines hinder virus circulation.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... australia/

I don't know what has been happening in Germany and I am only looking at this from "facts" about cases in Australia which has high levels of fully vaccinated people.

If you click on the link and then scroll down to "Daily New Cases in Australia" you will see that cases in Australia only started ramping up after June 2021. In Australia this is when vaccinations started in earnest. I don't see myself as an anti-vaxer but if it gives you more power to sling insults then so be it.

If vaccines hinder virus circulation then you need to make up some fictional reason to explain what is happening here when Australia was locked down. Australia has high levels of fully vaccinated people so Australia seems to be contradicting your propaganda. The statement that " The vaccines hinder Virus circulation" is not a scientific statement and it doesn't correlate to facts. Who is the liar here? If you want to sling insults then please do more research and only supply facts.

[axur-delmeria]

The phrase "activates new variants" is problematic, because it implies that the "activation" is intentional, that the vaccines were designed as such.

The situation with Australia needs further study-- we cannot simply look at the numbers and jump to conclusions.

[ajkula66]

The phrase "activates new variants" is problematic, because it implies that the "activation" is intentional, that the vaccines were designed as such.

Well, maybe the phrasing could be more accurate, but check what Luc Montagnier had to say about vaccinating in the middle of pandemic...

[shawross]

I actually said that "the jabs "appear" to activate new variants". I don't shy away from this statement because this is what the data says.

Whether it is intentional or not is another question. Maybe they are just highly incompetent.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/corona ... -c-5001112

Today Australia had it''s highest case numbers and they are calling it is crisis.

Australia has been locked down so if anyone can come up with an explanation then go ahead. Just don't talk garbage with uninstantiated comments that don't reflect data.

Australia has very high vaccination percentages but if we look at Africa which in some states has extremely low vaccination rates. Then what do we see?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory ... r-81271647

Well this has scientists mystified as you can see from the above link.

Another highly vaccinated country is Gibraltar which still seems to be struggling.
https://livebeyondborders.substack.com/ ... accination

So I have sighted three countries or regions where vaccination rates and infections are proportional.

Your TV is probably telling you that the unvaccinated are spreading the variants.

Don't be scared to do your own research and work out what is really happening

[mpcook]

The phrase "activates new variants" is problematic, because it implies that the "activation" is intentional, that the vaccines were designed as such.

Well, maybe the phrasing could be more accurate, but check what Luc Montagnier had to say about vaccinating in the middle of pandemic...

Here is a good discussion of why Luc Montagnier is incorrect. Almost all virologists disagree with his claim that vaccination causes more new variants.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... f4ab3cb753

[ajkula66]

Well, maybe the phrasing could be more accurate, but check what Luc Montagnier had to say about vaccinating in the middle of pandemic...

Here is a good discussion of why Luc Montagnier is incorrect. Almost all virologists disagree with his claim that vaccination causes more new variants.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... f4ab3cb753

Being in majority doesn't necessarily equal being right.

I'll stick with Montagnier says.

[shawross]

George is 100% correct here and Luc Montagnier shouldn't be taken lightly. He is a distinguished virologist who is approaching 90 years of age and he wouldn't be speaking out for the money.
https://cairnsnews.org/2021/08/31/new-e ... against-h/

So then we should look at "Healthline" and their credibility. Could they be a paid shill for Vaccine companies?

Healthline Media is funded by 8 investors. Summit Partners and Trinity Capital are the most recent investors. Okay so let's look at Summit and Trinity.

Summit have a partner called Mavrck Organization -" Mavrck is an influencer marketing platform that helps to identify and activate micro-influencers for enterprise consumer brands. Substitute propaganda for influencer. " https://www.mavrck.co/mavrck-closes-120 ... nvestment/

Summit have another partner called "Turning Point Healthcare" https://www.turningpoint-healthcare.com/
TurningPoint Healthcare Solutions provides a comprehensive suite of innovative Surgical and Implantable Device management solutions.

It seems Summit partners support propaganda and also new surgical and implantable device management solutions. Do you think that they are supporting propaganda to support their "Healthcare" companies?

Another Summit Partner is Veranex - Veranex is an end-to-end, global, tech-enabled, concept-through-commercialization service provider focuses on medical technology. There seems to be a trend here.

Okay then we should look at Trinity Capital which is a "Business Development Company" (“BDC”), is a type of corporate structure made possible by regulation introduced by Congress in 1980.

So Trinity partners in a propaganda firm but they also partner with "Resilience" https://resilience.com/about-biopharmac ... g-company/ watch their video from the link

A NEW ERA IN MANUFACTURING
Resilience is creating a first-of-its-kind ecosystem for advanced biopharmaceutical manufacturing. We provide a network of high-tech, end-to-end manufacturing and development solutions to ensure the medicines of today and tomorrow can be made quickly, safely, and at scale.

Do you think that Healthline is used to pedal propaganda for biopharma companies which are all owned by the same parent companies?

The Healthline article is high on spin but shallow on scientific facts. From the article - "There would also be a lot more diversity among the virus variants in countries with high vaccination rates, and increased disease spread and mortality among vaccinated people."

I have previously shown factual data which disputes this statement. What a load of hyperbole.

There are good people speaking against the vaccinations but you won't see them on your TV. This is happening all over the world. https://www.mizzima.com/article/lawyers ... ine-danger

Consider Healthline propaganda debunked. I would go into the money being currently made by these pharma companies and it should shock you. Who is paying for all this?

[dr_st]

This is the second time we're discussing Luc Montagnier. We appear to be going in circles.

Being in majority doesn't necessarily equal being right.

I'll stick with Montagnier says.

While I agree that one should not automatically assume the popular opinion to be the truth, even in science, you still need to provide some line of reasoning as to why you support this or that point of view.

What he says is that the virus will evolve/mutate more rapidly in the presence of vaccines, while others hold the position that it will happen more in unvaccinated populations due to the increased spread.

So far there is more data to support the opposite point of view than his point of view.

[shawross]

So far there is more data to support the opposite point of view than his point of view.

Maybe you can share that data? I assume that you believe you know more than Luc Montagnier about virology?

A good man should always know his limitations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFGBoRwOqdA

[ajkula66]

So far there is more data to support the opposite point of view than his point of view.

I guess that it depends on how one reads the data.

Delta coincided with the mass vaccination to quite some extent.

And yes, we're definitely going in circles...

[mpcook]

Here is a good discussion of why Luc Montagnier is incorrect. Almost all virologists disagree with his claim that vaccination causes more new variants.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... f4ab3cb753

Being in majority doesn't necessarily equal being right.

I'll stick with Montagnier says.

I agree with you that being in the majority doesn't always mean "being right". And that is not what I said. I But if you read up on Montagnier, you will find out that over the past several years, he has made many ridiculous statements. And, as well, read up on the nature of vaccines as well as the data and the historical track record on vaccines, all of which will also argue strongly against his proposition, a lone voice in a sea of countervailing data.

[mpcook]

George is 100% correct here and Luc Montagnier shouldn't be taken lightly. He is a distinguished virologist who is approaching 90 years of age and he wouldn't be speaking out for the money.
https://cairnsnews.org/2021/08/31/new-e ... against-h/

The Healthline article is high on spin but shallow on scientific facts. From the article - "There would also be a lot more diversity among the virus variants in countries with high vaccination rates, and increased disease spread and mortality among vaccinated people."

I have previously shown factual data which disputes this statement. What a load of hyperbole.

That is exactly correct, however, you missed the point. Montagnier's claim should logically result in this result, however, we see none of this. It is in fact what we call a spurious correlation. And the confusion he makes between correlation and causation is classic. (See here for more examples: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations)

"Stoilov said that Montagnier is not only mistaking correlation for causation with his claim, but that he isn’t even using a viable correlation to make the argument.

“The variants of concern frequency increase correlates to some degree to the onset of vaccination. But, this is the same as claiming that pirates are causing global warming. This correlation merely reflects the similar times it took for the virus to mutate and spread, and for us to develop the vaccines and start applying them,” he said.

If vaccines were creating new dangerous variants, then Stoilov said we would see proportionately more new variants emerging over time among vaccinated populations than with unvaccinated parts of the world.

There would also be a lot more diversity among the virus variants in countries with high vaccination rates, and increased disease spread and mortality among vaccinated people.

“We see nothing of that. In fact, we see exactly the opposite,” Stoilov said. “In places with high vaccination rates, the case numbers and mortality are dropping; virus diversity is limited to few (one to three) variants; and, s far, no new variants are emerging among vaccinated populations.”

[mpcook]

So far there is more data to support the opposite point of view than his point of view.

I guess that it depends on how one reads the data.

Delta coincided with the mass vaccination to quite some extent.

And yes, we're definitely going in circles...

Again, another example of spurious correlation. And, there is much published data supporting the conclusion that the emergence of new variants is waning within the vaccinated, and generally coming from the unvaccinated. Do not fall prey to the ecological fallacy .

[mpcook]

I actually said that "the jabs "appear" to activate new variants". I don't shy away from this statement because this is what the data says.
...
Australia has very high vaccination percentages but if we look at Africa which in some states has extremely low vaccination rates. Then what do we see?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory ... r-81271647

Well this has scientists mystified as you can see from the above link.

In fact the data do not say this. When you read the ABC article you reference, you will see a number of logical data-based hypotheses from scientists that are being researched regarding the Africa phenomenon. And also, do not confuse the ABC News headline with the reality of what they are reporting. "Mystified" is not a word used by any scientists quoted in the article but it does get attention when used in a headline. Another good example of a spurious correlation here. I, on the other hand, am quite mystified by the amount of casual vs. causal research being reported here.

[dr_st]

I guess that it depends on how one reads the data.

Delta coincided with the mass vaccination to quite some extent.

https://www.who.int/en/activities/track ... -variants/
According to this, Delta was first detected in October 2020, before there was any mass vaccination, and in fact before any vaccines were even approved. As were most of the variants of interest on their website. Omicron is the only one that's different.

[shawross]

Hyperbole from Healthline

Firstly I have proved that Healthline can't be trusted because they are part of an "Influencer" network. They get their funding From Summit Partners and Trinity Capital who finance Mavrck/Veranex/ Turning Point Healthcare and Resilience. Mavrck is the main "influencer" and the other companies produce vaccines, surgical and implantable medical devices and medical technology.

I have only scratched the surface with this investigation but I found enough evidence to prove they are conflicted and they would have an agenda to discredit Luc Montangnier. If you can't wrap your head around this fact then that is your problem. With that being said you still reference this propaganda which only produces hyperbole and no facts.

Previously I have offered factual data to show that in Australia vaccine cases started at the same time that vaccines started. This real actual data disputes the Healthline article designed as a hit piece against a highly respected and renown French Virologist.
Then you provide a link to a ridiculous website that links deaths by hanging to space technology etc etc. The example I have shown was vaccines starting at basically the same time that people started getting covid which is related and not some wild spurious correlation. https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2021 ... vaccinated

Stoilov and his university are getting funding to discredit Montangnier plain and simple.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defe ... jectively/
Bill Gates is heavily invested in vaccines and he gave 319 million to media networks. Why do you think he has to spend that sort of money to sell the message?

https://allafrica.com/stories/202009070824.html
With what is happening in Africa. Could natural immunity of the unvaccinated be helping them to ward off infections from covid19?

" According to some scientists who did not take part in the Kemri study, there are four things that might have slowed down the progression of Covid-19 in Africa--cross-immunity from other coronaviruses which have seen population build immunity; the continent's youthful population; temperate climate; and exposure to some diseases that are not present in the West."

We would have all had natural immunity to some degree and all the vacccines have done is complicate the pandemic. The data backs this up.

According to this, Delta was first detected in October 2020

Your article is from the WHO and they lack credibility. https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/is-w-h-o ... -genocide/
The director of the WHO is a very sketchy character who lacks credibility.

How do they know that Delta was first detected in 2020? The viruses are real but they have never been isolated. http://web.archive.org/web/202106052003 ... virus.html

The scientific way to verify a virus is to isolate it using Robert Koch postulates and this has never been done. So we can't scientifically say when the viruses started and whether they are the same or different.

From article - " Robert Koch was a German physician who won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1905 for his work on tuberculosis and established the postulates on the lethality of a virus, not its existence.

Many questions are surrounding the pandemic and the repeated contradictions of the WHO, and the difficulties in studying the origin of the virus in the virology laboratory of Wuhan, China, do not contribute anything to clear them up.

More and more questions arise, such as the one raised a few days ago by the lawsuit filed by the clinical scientist and immunologist-virologist of a Southern California laboratory, Dr. Derek Knauss, and his colleagues from 7 universities against the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) for massive fraud."

So who should we listen to, Nobel peace prize winners Robert Koch and Luc Montangnier or dubious conflicted organisations who spread propaganda?

[shawross]

So what is going on then currently? I don't know but you need to listen to what reputable Doctors and Virologists are saying. They may not be exact in their predictions but they seem to be issuing warnings for what is ahead. Is this an intentional program underway or are there imbeciles running society.

This is from a Jewish Physician who is an Orthodox Jew.

https://thephaser.com/2021/12/dr-zelenk ... on-agenda/

https://beforeitsnews.com/health/2021/0 ... 41097.html

So are these people nutters or could there be something to this with what I have presented lately.

[dr_st]

Your article is from the WHO and they lack credibility.

In the end this is what it all comes down to. Everyone brings his prejudices to the table, and according to those prejudices you decide who you believe and who you don't. Merits have no bearings. You simply decide that whoever supports your prejudice is honest and truthful, and whoever doesn't is a liar that spreads propaganda.

So are these people nutters or could there be something to this with what I have presented lately.

It's an easy question. Anyone who talks about "satanic depopulation agenda" in regards to the COVID vaccines is a nutter indeed.

[RealBlackStuff]

Exactly one year ago, on 20 Dec. 2020, this thread was started.
Having plenty of time (and being vaccinated twice, plus a booster shot), I thought I'll do some sleuthing.
This thread has a lot of posts (294 so far) but one poster sticks out: shawross with 42 contributions.
By now people must have realised that you do NOT want any vaccines.
That is your good right, but do you really have to drag in anything you can find, just to 'defend' your personal views?

[shawross]

LOL It is obvious we don't all have the same belief system.

I tend not to trust the government and the media line and a lot of times I have responded to other posters here.

I always look to stick to facts as far as possible and yes I understand I am in the minority in my views.

It seems if you regurgitate the media line then facts are not required.

It is interesting that the viewpoint that goes against the mainstream narative seems to make many people uncomfortable.

Then people respond with standard responses found on mainstream media sites.

Galileo faced the inquisition nearly 400 years ago and it is funny how things don't really change.

[dr_st]

I tend not to trust the government and the media line and a lot of times I have responded to other posters here.

If it's about not trusting blindly the government and the mainstream media, then I support you all the way.

But the alternative shouldn't be to automatically distrust everything that comes out of there.

Nor should it be to blindly trust anyone who says the opposite. Which is what a lot of the "anti-establishment" folks seem to be doing.

[exTPfan]

Right now in Michigan 120 people are dying each day from Covid (delta). The unvaccinated are 7 times more likely to be hospitalized and 16 times more likely to die than the vaccinated. Many hospitals are full. People are dying from health emergencies and accidents because there are no ICU beds available. This is not a game.
If you are unvaccinated, and you get Covid, please stay home. Don't suddenly decide the science was right after all, and clog the hospitals like so many others.

[mpcook]

Your article is from the WHO and they lack credibility.

In the end this is what it all comes down to. Everyone brings his prejudices to the table, and according to those prejudices you decide who you believe and who you don't. Merits have no bearings. You simply decide that whoever supports your prejudice is honest and truthful, and whoever doesn't is a liar that spreads propaganda.

So are these people nutters or could there be something to this with what I have presented lately.

It's an easy question. Anyone who talks about "satanic depopulation agenda" in regards to the COVID vaccines is a nutter indeed.

Yes, you beat me to it, nutters one and all who believe in this "satanic depopulation agenda".

[ajkula66]

If you are unvaccinated, and you get Covid, please die quietly at home. Don't suddenly decide the science was right after all, and clog the hospitals like so many others.

I thought you went away a while ago, but you keep on popping up like a bad penny.

Threatened to leave the forum, but didn't because you're a coward.

Called me names and never apologized but came back to spew venom, because you're a spineless coward.

Why don't you just put on a SS uniform and start purging the unvaxed ?

Or stand outside of ER and block entrance to the unvaxed like Kirkegaard did to believers in front of the churches?

Of course you won't. Because you are a coward.

You've obviously lost any and all decency that you once might have had.

Go and hide in your basement. Die there triple-masked waiting for the plague to end.