My ThinkPad T25 review

[Thinkpad4by3]

That's what happened with Mechanical Computer keyboards, and Laser printers/Copiers, and Microsoft Word, and Optical Drives and.......

People change. Consumers aren't going back. There is a reason that computers come with 5$ junk keyboards instead of nice mechanical ones. There is a reason people find that optical drives are useless, and that Copiers are just expensive inkjets. And especially why Google Docs is seen as a suitable replacement to WORD !!!!

Yes all of these great things were really nice in their heyday, but People don't want to fund the extra cost, and find that cheaper options work for them. We aren't the average consumer for 99% of electronic crap that they sell at BestBuy.

[xsixt]

Whipping out the T60 (as I liked to do, with a foolish child attitude in High School) the reaction is "why's it so dim? the screen is yellow? the resolution is quite low". While I am keen on solving the first two issues with things like the great CRI LED replacement backlight kits, and do not mind a lower display density in order to enjoy the things I like more about 4:3, other people do not feel this way.

Notice I also said "or your 3:2 Surface"... My comment never suggested "let's return to the nostalgic T60 days", my point was merely about showing people there are better aspect ratios available.

[TPFanatic]

And especially why Google Docs is seen as a suitable replacement to WORD !!!!

Aw hell nah google docs along with the google browser are RAM hogs. It's nothing compared to MS Word. The opensource ones are also not as good.

[dr_st]

[offtopic]

That's what happened with Mechanical Computer keyboards, and Laser printers/Copiers, and Microsoft Word, and Optical Drives and.......

Well, the mechanical keyboard niche is blooming, though. It seems there are plenty of geeks who like them. Laser printers/copiers are still widely used, by people and offices whose volume of printing justifies the extra initial cost (and the bulk), and Microsoft Word never went anywhere - it is still the #1 used word processor, I think, by far.

Optical drives, though... yes, pretty much dead. For good reasons. As portable rewritable storage, flash drives now beat opticals in every way - size, speed and cost. For backup purposes - hard drives have also surpassed them in cost per gigabyte a while ago, and have beaten them hands down in compactness per gigabyte and speed.
[/offtopic]

[RealBlackStuff]

[offtopic also]

There is a reason people find that that Copiers are just expensive inkjets.

Objection!
I had a multifunction printer/copier/fax, a Brother MFC240, that was just sitting around, hardly ever used, gathering dust.
It uses 4 cartridges, Black/Cyan/Magenta/Yellow.
HP printers require cartridges with a chip in it, to prove they are original HP, and they cost an arm and a leg!
Heck, you can buy a new printer cheaper than one HP ink-cartridge!
Contrary to crappy HP, the Brother printers can take ANY cartridges that will fit!
Before I gave that printer away to my garage, I bought a set of 4 cartridges that cost me all of $4.99 incl. shipping!
For daily use I have a Brother HL-5240 laser printer, where the (non-original) toner costs $12.95 for ca. 7,000 pages!

There is a reason why Google Docs is seen as a suitable replacement to WORD!

Objection!
To begin with: why would anybody want to publicly work on any document?
I'm still using M$ Office 2010 (only Word and Excel), extended with Ubitmenu, to get rid of those stupid, space-eating Micro$hifty ribbon menus.
My Office has a Volume-License-Key for it, which will run out in January next year.
I have spent quite some time with LibreOffice, and both its Writer(~Word) and Calc(~Excel) perform just as good as M$ for my personal needs.
So early next year, it's bye-bye to that Micro$haft product, and LibreOffice will take its place.
Nice side-effect: LibreOffice is FREE.

This will also make dumping Windows (W7) easier, because Linux has been on my wish list for some time now.
Nearly all the programs that I use under Windows, are now also available under Linux. (and then there was WINE...)
No W10 EVER for me.
And with Linux, who needs all that fancy (Windows-aimed) hardware they are throwing at us nowadays?
Hence my lack of interest in a T25-Retro.
[end/offtopic also]

[Thinkpad4by3]

Im talking about your average joe. I know many people who switched to docs and bought crappy(expensive in the long run) inkjets. The point is consumers(not Thinkpadders) usually just listen to the BestBuy guy. I use Word 2010 too and I dont ever plan on switching. I use an 4 year old inkjet and I bought a 15$ Ink bottle that lasts me about ca. 13000 pages with a CISS. People only think of the upfront cost, not the total.

[JaneL]

And [censored] "[censored]". Censorship like that is for preventing little kids from picking up bad words and habits, it doesn't hide the tone or irritation in the profanity it's covering up. I think the average age of this board is well above 30.

The only thing new is that someone changed the filter over my strong objections from "Expletives removed by moderator" to "censored". Nothing to see here. Move along.

[TPFanatic]

3:2 to 16:10 is not as dramatic a difference as 16:10 to 16:9. So it is barely an improvement, but an improvement over 16:9.

[gofishus]

Not to preach, but to actually educate. Google topics like 4:3 vs 16:9 vs 16:10 and you find almost nothing. People need to start teaching their coworkers, friends etc., "hey look at your stupid useless widescreen - they're only useful for gaming". Whip out your T60 (or 3:2 surface for that matter) and show them what it's like to use a proper screen.

When I was a loser teenager in high school, this is the attitude I had towards this kind of thing. Imagine if someone was so pushy about something you've never given a second thought to like that. Your reaction will be to turn away entirely. Whipping out the T60 (as I liked to do, with a foolish child attitude in High School) the reaction is "why's it so dim? the screen is yellow? the resolution is quite low". While I am keen on solving the first two issues with things like the great CRI LED replacement backlight kits, and do not mind a lower display density in order to enjoy the things I like more about 4:3, other people do not feel this way. They may come to the same conclusion as you, but it's a thought they must arrive to on their own, and the best you can do is provide information that will help them understand your viewpoint. Twisting people's arms and being pushy is only going to make someone dislike it even more; that kind of argument is the backbone of 2017 political conversion and it's not pleasant.

This is so true. non Thinkpad users just don't get it. They are spoiled by the 4K 16:9 displays and GTX 1070s and 1080s. They are dazzled by OLED screens and high ppi displays. They find thin-ness to be sexy and dont care about VGA ports or Expresscard slots (or even know what those are). I have a friend who's older than I am actually and the first thing he says about my X61 is 'that laptop looks ancient' 'it looks like its from the 90s' 'why is the resolution so low?' 'it's using a TN panel? SUCKS' 'Core 2 processor is ancient' 'the keyboard looks so outdated' 'that looks thick enough to crush someone' you get the idea... he's the mainstream consumer

[xsixt]

3:2 to 16:10 is not as dramatic a difference as 16:10 to 16:9. So it is barely an improvement, but an improvement over 16:9.

The whole reason 3:2 is a thing to celebrate, is because finally, in a trending market with a race towards the bottom, and screens threatening to make laptops as long as skateboards, we have some alternatives which are increasing, rather than decreasing vertical height! And that's a good thing!

While you may be correct in saying 1920x1200 to 1920x1280 is not a huge jump, plenty would argue that the "small" drop of 120px from 1920x1200 to 1920x1080 was significant and ruined many laptops.

[TPFanatic]

This is so true. non Thinkpad users just don't get it. They are spoiled by the 4K 16:9 displays and GTX 1070s and 1080s. They are dazzled by OLED screens and high ppi displays.

Actually High DPI is what dazzled many customers into buying the 1600x1200 A series, R50p, T42p/T43p, and T60p; and the 1920x1200 panels in Z61p, T61p, and W500.

While you may be correct in saying 1920x1200 to 1920x1280 is not a huge jump, plenty would argue that the "small" drop of 120px from 1920x1200 to 1920x1080 was significant and ruined many laptops.

I am and I do. 120 pixels is 50% more than 80 pixels which is why it is significant. 16:10 built on 4:3 while 16:9 depreciated. 1920x1200 maintained the 1200 rows of UXGA while FHD for real took pixels away. HD+ took pixels away from WSXGA+. HD took rows from WXGA which was already an upgrade over XGA. This is the problem with 16:9, it is historical the "cheap" option that manufacturers used not only to take away glass but pixels too. They could have developed a 2134x1200 that no one would complain about, made 1920x1080 the replacement for WSXGA+, and I don't care about WXGA/XGA/HD. But they had to be stupid.

[gofishus]

Yeah your best bet for 16:10 at this point is a Macbook. I think the 2012-2015 models are actually quite good with a decent port selection and keyboard. The 2016+ Macbook Pros are obviously completely opposite the thinkpads ([censored] keyboard, no ports, no connectivity, cant upgrade anything etc)

[dr_st]

I have a friend who's older than I am actually and the first thing he says about my X61 is 'that laptop looks ancient' 'it looks like its from the 90s' 'why is the resolution so low?' 'it's using a TN panel? SUCKS' 'Core 2 processor is ancient' 'the keyboard looks so outdated' 'that looks thick enough to crush someone' you get the idea... he's the mainstream consumer

Well, he is right on all points (except he's off by a decade when it comes to looks, but this is a common mistake).

[TPFanatic]

My problem with 16:9 is the loss of pixels. This is long no longer a problem with FHD being the default resolution on every modern Thinkpad of every product line, and QHD is also popular. I'd ditch my T500 for 2560x1440 in my T520.

[gofishus]

My problem with 16:9 is the loss of pixels. This is long no longer a problem with FHD being the default resolution on every modern Thinkpad of every product line, and QHD is also popular. I'd ditch my T500 for 2560x1440 in my T520.

Actually 3:2 gives you more vertical real estate than 16:10. Its not quite as good as 4:3 but its a good compromise resolution and so far we've been seeing it on a lot of hybrids with the Microsoft Surface Pro and SurfaceBook leading the charge. I would take 3:2 over 16:9 anyday.