Thinkpadders, do NOT Rejoice, WEEP and/or DESPAIR!

[ajkula66]

If its a classic key shape, it can´t be a Chiclet keyboard. The key mechanisms are the same anyways, so the key shape is the major differentiator between the two styles.

Huh? The key mechanisms differed between manufacturers on the same generation of keyboards in the "proper keyboard" era. So which one was adopted for the "island" keyboard, and is that exactly what one will be getting here?

Not to mention that island keyboards have shorter key travel at least on ThinkPads. So there's more than just the key shape in this equation.

[Ibthink]

Huh? The key mechanisms differed between manufacturers on the same generation of keyboards in the "proper keyboard" era. So which one was adopted for the "island" keyboard, and is that exactly what one will be getting here?

While there were minor differences between manufacturers regarding the implementation, the basic key-mechanism design (scissor switch) has always been the same.

An example for a different key-mechanism design would be the newer Macbooks with their Butterfly-switches. Which feel completely different from any scissor switch design.

Not to mention that island keyboards have shorter key travel at least on ThinkPads. So there's more than just the key shape in this equation.

Indeed, newer ThinkPads have shorter key travel - but thats also not a differentiator between Chiclet and non-Chiclet. There have been Chiclet keyboards with the same key travel as the old classical keyboards.

The point is: Saying that the keys have the classic-key-shape but are still "otherwise a Chiclet" keyboard is nonsensical. Yes, this keyboard isn´t a carbon-copy of the Tx20 keyboard. Its the same design adopted for a different chassis and its also a backlit keyboard (the first time there is a keyboard with the Classical key shape and Backlight).

[chx1975]

I had a chat with ibthink on reddit in June about how Dell has the GTX 1050 in the XPS 15 and we are going to shafted by the 940MX. (And how I am wrong because the XPS 15 is not the business modell.)

At IFA https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... -ifa-2017/ go to 26:03 you will see they are releasing a Thunderbolt 3 graphics dock with an 1050 inside. It would be better inside but I will settle for outside see, this is why I wanted TB3 on the Retro, for a great eGPU and here it comes already. And as the years pass, we will get even faster ones, just watch. And those who want more graphics intensive can get big bricks on their desks, I will be just happy with this.

And it is coming in October with the new Yoga 920. I will hand over an obscene amount of money to Lenovo in October, I can already see it I want both the smallest and the largest battery, a new desktop dock, this portable graphics dock and who knows what else will I find in the remaining 12 days

[thedude]

The point is: Saying that the keys have the classic-key-shape but are still "otherwise a Chiclet" keyboard is nonsensical. Yes, this keyboard isn´t a carbon-copy of the Tx20 keyboard. Its the same design adopted for a different chassis and its also a backlit keyboard (the first time there is a keyboard with the Classical key shape and Backlight).

There has been some speculation that the added effort in retooling for a backlit classic keyboard foreshadows a likely continuation of this design choice as an option (at the very least). Would you say that the top brass gave any indication that might be true? Or is it truly a one done deal?

I'm afraid I might not have the funds available for this by next month so just wondering if there is any hope down the line.

[Ibthink]

I'm afraid I might not have the funds available for this by next month so just wondering if there is any hope down the line.

I think there is hope, but my guess would be that it all depends how many of the ThinkPad 25 will be sold.

[Kilkenny]

I'm afraid I might not have the funds available for this by next month so just wondering if there is any hope down the line.

I think there is hope, but my guess would be that it all depends how many of the ThinkPad 25 will be sold.

This is what I'm afraid of.

They give the diehards hope for years about better aspect ratios, more ports, etc., then slap a classic keyboard on a T470 and charge a premium. The diehards are furious and don't buy it, the sales numbers are low, and Lenovo concludes that nobody wants a classic keyboard or a retro ThinkPad, drops it completely, and continues its Apple chasing for all eternity.

In reality we do want a retro ThinkPad but want it done right.

[Kilkenny]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned (can't possibly remember so many pages) but how about this?
a Thinkpad, with 4:3 IPS screen, an Intel Core i7-7700HQ CPU, 32GB-DDR4 and a 256GB PCIe-SSD (2400MB/s read and 1300MB/s write). It is brand new. It is also possible to order a mainboard with a 7300HQ CPU.
The secret?
T70
Who needs a Retro?

I've been debating this for a while and may end up just going for it.

I'm really amazed at how clueless Lenovo is. People want the classic ThinkPad so badly that they are fabricating their own motherboards to use with the old chassis. Let's let that sink in. I guess it's hard to hear your customers with your head so firmly entrenched up Apple's rear end.

[dr_st]

They give the diehards hope for years about better aspect ratios

Really, it was mostly the diehards who gave themselves hope for years about better aspect ratios. No communication from Lenovo ever suggested that anything better than 8:5 is likely, and the less optimistic realized that 16:9 is probably the more likely option.

more ports

What's wrong with the port selection? Which more ports would you like?

then slap a classic keyboard on a T470 and charge a premium

Let's see how high the premium is going to be first, shall we?

Lenovo concludes that nobody wants a classic keyboard or a retro ThinkPad, drops it completely, and continues its Apple chasing for all eternity.

Well, let's not let it happen then. WE are the die-hards, many of us CAN afford this premium (I hope), it's up to us.

In reality we do want a retro ThinkPad but want it done right.

I don't want a "retro" Thinkpad. I want a good Thinkpad. I want a modern Thinkpad with a keyboard that doesn't suck. It looks like I might be getting one in this model. I'd possibly like some other changes as well, but none of them currently seems to be as much of a deal breaker. I literally stopped buying Thinkpads, using Thinkpads and caring about Thinkpads after the keyboard fiasco. So much that I don't even have the slightest idea how I feel about most of the other changes in recent generations - which ones I like and which ones I don't.

[lophiomys]

I'm afraid I might not have the funds available for this by next month so just wondering if there is any hope down the line.

I think there is hope, but my guess would be that it all depends how many of the ThinkPad 25 will be sold.

IMO this incarnation of the Thinkpad 25 is doomed to fail.

Except for the nearly "classic" keyboard, what are the anniversary features?

My 10 years old Thinkpad T43p (a real Classic) has more vertical pixels on the screen than this T 25!

The Thinkpad 25, as leaked so far, is missing:
- 4:3 form factor, see: http://www.displaywars.com/14-inch-16x9-vs-15-inch-4x3
- High DPI Screen !!!
- Clam shell casing with single handed latch mechanism
- asoasf

Therefore this anniversary model will most likely be a sales failure, as it is missing half of the DNA of a real Classic Thinkpad.
It is just a keyboard mock-up based on a stock T470, and will be disappointing to long-term Thinkpad users and not really attractive for standard or new customers, except for the keyboard layout. (We don't know about the hands-on typing experience yet.)

Is a quarter century of Thinkpad important for Lenovo?

To me, this appears like the cheapest fake to pretend a 25th anniversary of the long standing Thinkpad brand.
Hope is no more.

[RealBlackStuff]

To me, this appears like the cheapest fake to pretend a 25th anniversary of the long standing Thinkpad brand.

Maybe this is another one of Trump's "Fake News" Twitters?

And on closer inspection of the "new" keyboard, WHY the heck did those brainless eejits swap F5(wifi) for F8(touchpad)

[Thinkpad4by3]

I think there is hope, but my guess would be that it all depends how many of the ThinkPad 25 will be sold.

IMO this incarnation of the Thinkpad 25 is doomed to fail.

Except for the nearly "classic" keyboard, what are the anniversary features?

My 10 years old Thinkpad T43p (a real Classic) has more vertical pixels on the screen than this T 25!

The Thinkpad 25, as leaked so far, is missing:
- 4:3 form factor, see: http://www.displaywars.com/14-inch-16x9-vs-15-inch-4x3
- High DPI Screen !!!
- Clam shell casing with single handed latch mechanism
- asoasf

Therefore this anniversary model will most likely be a sales failure, as it is missing half of the DNA of a real Classic Thinkpad.
It is just a keyboard mock-up based on a stock T470, and will be disappointing to long-term Thinkpad users and not really attractive for standard or new customers, except for the keyboard layout. (We don't know about the hands-on typing experience yet.)

Is a quarter century of Thinkpad important for Lenovo?

To me, this appears like the cheapest fake to pretend a 25th anniversary of the long standing Thinkpad brand.
Hope is no more.

One: the industry standard is 16:9. Getting a different ratio panel is extremely hard unless it was an Xseries machine.

Two: If it had QHD, it would have more vertical resolution than your T43p and a heck of alot more on the horizonal.

Three: You cant compare a 15" lcd to a 14" screen. The 15" LCD will always be bigger.

Four: I would like to but that would require making the LCD assembly significantly bigger.

[Thinkpad4by3]

To me, this appears like the cheapest fake to pretend a 25th anniversary of the long standing Thinkpad brand.

Maybe this is another one of Trump's "Fake News" Twitters?

And on closer inspection of the "new" keyboard, WHY the heck did those brainless eejits swap F5(wifi) for F8(touchpad)

Its just a render, not a real picture. That can only taken with a grain of salt. Some guy at 2am probably put it together in 2 hours and mixed it up.

[lophiomys]

...
One: the industry standard is 16:9. Getting a different ratio panel is extremely hard unless it was an Xseries machine.

It would not be hard, at most it would be a little bit more expensive to source a 4:3 or 3:2 high DPI IPS LCD.
It has been produced in the past, is still in use in airliners AND other manufacturers can do it today.

Two: If it had QHD, it would have more vertical resolution than your T43p and a heck of alot more on the horizonal.

That would be, what I am asking for, assuming a technical progress over 10 years(!) respective to my T43p and T42p.

Three: You cant compare a 15" lcd to a 14" screen. The 15" LCD will always be bigger.

Four: I would like to but that would require making the LCD assembly significantly bigger.

Yes I can. As has been demonstrated by this comparison above, you can see that
a 14 inch 16:9 has roughly the same width as a 15.0 inch 4:3 and
given the thick bezel above and below the missing height towards 15.0 inch 4:3 would fit in too!

[Puppy]

Lenovo did it again, quote from Reddit discussion

It's based on the regular T470, not T470s, and won't have the 4-lane eDP connector necessary for WQHD.

This is total deal breaker for me and my interest has dropped from 1% to zero Sorry Lenovo, this is just another big fail. I don't understand why Lenovo decided to cripple T470 motherboard this way (in contrast of "s" and "p" models) but it now pays back.

[dr_st]

It's based on the regular T470, not T470s, and won't have the 4-lane eDP connector necessary for WQHD.

If that's true, I must admit, that this sounds like the worst and dumbest thing about the machine, so far.

[Thinkpad4by3]

Its perfectly acceptable when nitrocaster only gives up 2 lanes, because what he is giving up is a nice upgrade and he worked hard to make it. He is only one person, not a billion dollar company.

Now Lenovo not using the T470p or T470s as a base instead of the sh!tty T470. Well, thats just about shooting the project in the foot.

[chx1975]

I think there is hope, but my guess would be that it all depends how many of the ThinkPad 25 will be sold.

IMO this incarnation of the Thinkpad 25 is doomed to fail.

Except for the nearly "classic" keyboard, what are the anniversary features?

Nothing. Many of us don't need anything else , though. Sure, super ratios, status LEDs and whatnot would be better.

But in six years this ThinkPad is the first I can buy and the features are what they are. For me, I am more unhappy because the TB3 port uses a 20 Gbit/s low power controller instead of a full 40 Gbit/s -- but that's just me. At least I get a TB3 port. If Lenovo indeed ships the TB3 dock containing a GTX 1050 they demoed at IFA when the new Yoga 920 ships which roughly coincides with the TA25 shipping date then I will have a laptop I can work and game both.

I don't care about the screen ratio, full HD is nice, I have a T420s w/ full HD screen, this is great, I already need to zoom in to see well, I don't need a higher res. 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 is not a big difference, especially compared to the two PackedPixel displays I intend to buy and hang them off the laptop. That's a hell lot of screen. (Also, if I badly need a single sheet of portable big glass, well, I already have a Sharp LL-S201A 20" and a carry on sized backpack customized to carry that monitor and the T420s (which the T470 is practically identical size wise) in a way they seem to take no space at all. Bag of holding No matter what wonder panel Lenovo would ship in a 14-15" laptop it will be dwarfed by the LL-S201A )

I am a pragmatist. My choices at this point are:

- stick with an old ThinkPad with a screen (and perhaps a keyboard firmware) hack,
- get a Thunderboltless, dockless Chinese hack of a motherboard,
- buy the TA25 (hopefully with five year onsite warranty!).

I know what I will choose. I could wish for other choices but these are what I have and I will work with them. Keep your head down and inch towards daylight.

Even if right now they would pull a miracle and create a classic keyboard, quad core, 40 gbit/s TB3 machine, you guys would still be unhappy because it's 16:9 and doesn't have status LED.

[w0qj]

So guess your definition of an Old School ThinkPadder is the (7-row) Classic Keyboard.
(OK, the legendary build quality is still in all ThinkPads!)

I am a pragmatist. My choices at this point are:

- stick with an old ThinkPad with a screen (and perhaps a keyboard firmware) hack,
- get a Thunderboltless, dockless Chinese hack of a motherboard,
- buy the TA25 (hopefully with five year onsite warranty!).

I know what I will choose. I could wish for other choices but these are what I have and I will work with them. Keep your head down and inch towards daylight.

Even if right now they would pull a miracle and create a classic keyboard, quad core, 40 gbit/s TB3 machine, you guys would still be unhappy because it's 16:9 and doesn't have status LED.

[cacophony]

I really hope they don't force a single configuration that requires fairly high end specs (16 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD, i7). Lenovo charges too much for those upgrades, and while I'd be excited to finally have an opportunity to buy to a modern Thinkpad with a decent keyboard + IPS screen, I'm not going to spend ~$1700+ for a what's essentially a T470 with a nicer keyboard.

[chx1975]

So guess your definition of an Old School ThinkPadder is the (7-row) Classic Keyboard.
(OK, the legendary build quality is still in all ThinkPads!)

Look at an X1. Compare. You can't exchange the hard drive, the memory, there is no docking connector. These are what makes a ThinkPad a ThinkPad.

And since I kept a laptop for six years I would define it as classic by now -- and the change from the T420s to T430 and on indeed is the keyboard.

Yes, I can see others if they kept even older machines they might be disappointed. But as I said: while the disappointment is understandable this hollering to high heavens is not so much. Name me another computer company that walked back on its decision (even if just for once) based on fan feedback.

[thedude]

I'm afraid I might not have the funds available for this by next month so just wondering if there is any hope down the line.

I think there is hope, but my guess would be that it all depends how many of the ThinkPad 25 will be sold.

I was wishing for a more enthusiastic confirmation, but it makes sense. If I don't make the window, perhaps it might be possible to get the palmrest/keyboard and drop it into a t470 down the line, but it seems questionable whether one could even secure those parts.

Out of curiosity, I saw the specs mention a touchscreen. Is it going to be a digitizer enabled to accept active Wacom pens (e.g. Thinkpad Pro Pen)? Thanks again.

[dr_st]

If I don't make the window, perhaps it might be possible to get the palmrest/keyboard and drop it into a t470 down the line, but it seems questionable whether one could even secure those parts.

What's this talk about the window? Do we assume that the Anniversary Edition is only going to be offered for a limited time / in low quantity?

[thedude]

If I don't make the window, perhaps it might be possible to get the palmrest/keyboard and drop it into a t470 down the line, but it seems questionable whether one could even secure those parts.

What's this talk about the window? Do we assume that the Anniversary Edition is only going to be offered for a limited time / in low quantity?

I don't mean to be an alarmist, I've just seen the word limited thrown around in association with this model so I went with it. I get the feeling that every order will likely be filled, but there must some arbitrary window where they shut down and allocate resources to other projects.

[RealBlackStuff]

Fake news?
Or the REAL announcement?
October 5th, 2017 11:00am (EDT)
For whatever it's worth: https://twitter.com/lenovo/status/913753988054396928

[Thinkpad4by3]

Look who is invited:





All our favorite Thinkpad models,according to Lenovo.

[w0qj]

Does ThinkPad 25 ship with Windows 10 *Signature*Edition*?
Does Lenovo Win10 *Signature*Edition* block you from installing Linux?
www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-reportedly ... dition-pcs

The normal ThinkPad T470 appears to ship with Win10 *Signature*Edition*
www.eweek.com/pc-hardware/lenovo-s-thin ... -tradition

[dr_st]

Does ThinkPad 25 ship with Windows 10 *Signature*Edition*?
Does Lenovo Win10 *Signature*Edition* block you from installing Linux?
www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-reportedly ... dition-pcs

The normal ThinkPad T470 appears to ship with Win10 *Signature*Edition*
www.eweek.com/pc-hardware/lenovo-s-thin ... -tradition

The articles you refer to mix unrelated concepts.

"Signature edition" is just a code name for a bloatware-free install.

The problem with the Yoga is the drive running in RAID mode, which requires a proprietary Lenovo driver, which is not available for Linux, and there is no option in the BIOS to switch it back to any of the standard SATA modes.

There is no way in hell a T470 suffers from the same issue. People would have been burning at the stakes already.

[Thinkpad4by3]

Does ThinkPad 25 ship with Windows 10 *Signature*Edition*?
Does Lenovo Win10 *Signature*Edition* block you from installing Linux?
www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-reportedly ... dition-pcs

The normal ThinkPad T470 appears to ship with Win10 *Signature*Edition*
www.eweek.com/pc-hardware/lenovo-s-thin ... -tradition

The articles you refer to mix unrelated concepts.

"Signature edition" is just a code name for a bloatware-free install.

The problem with the Yoga is the drive running in RAID mode, which requires a proprietary Lenovo driver, which is not available for Linux, and there is no option in the BIOS to switch it back to any of the standard SATA modes.

There is no way in hell a T470 suffers from the same issue. People would have been burning at the stakes already.

Burning at the stakes? Thats a complete UNDERSTATEMENT!

The yoga still lies in the consumer and prosumer track. It doesnt require Linux. The T470, a buisness class machine better have Linux or a mass firing squad hired by hundreds of companies will be marching into lenovo headquarters.

[Puppy]

Lenovo: ThinkPad 25 will likely be announced on October 5, only available in certain markets

Based on the available keyboard-layouts, it seems the ThinkPad 25 will be available in the following countries: Germany, Belgium, Spain, France, italy, Netherlands, Sweden, USA, China Great Britain, Japan as well as Denmark and Norway. Of course, this is still unconfirmed information and there is a chance that this list isn´t quite complete.

Just another fail?

[w0qj]

OK, we stand corrected
Thanks for clarifying...

The articles you refer to mix unrelated concepts.

"Signature edition" is just a code name for a bloatware-free install.

The problem with the Yoga is the drive running in RAID mode, which requires a proprietary Lenovo driver, which is not available for Linux, and there is no option in the BIOS to switch it back to any of the standard SATA modes.

There is no way in hell a T470 suffers from the same issue. People would have been burning at the stakes already.