what computer model is this?

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beshad · #1 Post by **beshad** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:22 pm

hi guys,

it's been a while since i have posted here and sorry in advance if this question turns out to be completely non-IBM related but does anyone know what brand of desktop is this?

https://ibb.co/Jsq3J8q

i came across it today in an old IT recycling store and wondering if it's worth buying it or not? had a look inside it and it looked from late 80's early 90's era i think.

can buy for next to nothing.

cheers

theterminator93 · #2 Post by **theterminator93** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:59 am

Interesting - not a manufacturer I have heard of. Based on the apparent 3.5" drive bays and the good ol' "Turbo" button, it's probably an early-mid 90s 386 or 486 based system.

axur-delmeria · #3 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:41 am

Looks like a generic clone PC TBH.

beshad · #4 Post by **beshad** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:01 am

thanks guys yes it does look like a clone generic brand PC. i was hoping its an antique computer from 1700's when US had only five states! : )

it probably has a very small size IDE hard drive which worth taking out, reset is junk i guess. unless its a 286 or something.

axur-delmeria · #5 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:10 am

You should have taken a few pics of the internal components. I might have been able to identify them.

beshad · #6 Post by **beshad** » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:31 pm

here are few more pictures:

https://ibb.co/QC2r4pd
https://ibb.co/85tLxNz
https://ibb.co/pKbzRzH
https://ibb.co/7KvQcWM
https://ibb.co/yPYJH0V
https://ibb.co/rMvs9XK

it looks like a locally (Christchurch/NZ) assembled generic 286 from late 80's or early 90's. don't know yet if it turns on

i couldn't resist and bought it for NZ$5. its either a throwaway junk or hopefully a working 286!

axur-delmeria · #7 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:28 am

I stand corrected: that's no generic clone.

The chassis is low-profile with a motherboard that has riser cards for the I/O cards, which I haven't seen outside of branded PCs like Compaq. If it is a standard mini-AT motherboard underneath those cards, then kudos to the engineer who designed the riser card backplane.

Still, the low level of I/O integration puts it between 286 and 386.

Hope it boots up. I don't see a VGA port, so that means MDA/CGA/EGA. I don't even know if monitors for those still exist.

beshad · #8 Post by **beshad** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:52 pm

ok it does turn on

it starts and the fan spins and i can hear the hard drive spinning too, but i don't have the right screen to see anything and also speaker is stuffed so can't hear any sound either. looks like CPU is not there too?!

someone had gone into it and cut some cables from the turbo, reset, speaker and HDD light but the wires are easy bit to fix.

i have got quite few more pictures here:

https://ibb.co/DMdRqVg
https://ibb.co/Nng4G1g
https://ibb.co/Bgp2mvx
https://ibb.co/ZYDw3Yv
https://ibb.co/273FtSx
https://ibb.co/0m5rvjv
https://ibb.co/B2snW5c
https://ibb.co/t4sYbPt
https://ibb.co/Jncdv3M
https://ibb.co/TPRn1h0
https://ibb.co/2Wqc6y7
https://ibb.co/BfYBNSt
https://ibb.co/kGX0vY3

since it's running i am now more tempted to maybe restore it if i can, looking at the photos i can see it is printed on a chip it's a 386SX from 92 although the CPU appears to be missing from the centre am i right?

hard drive is a cool 43MB!!! don't know how much ram though. GPU looks pretty cool with unusual output .

my question: is this PC something worth keeping? considering its not branded and CPU is not there?

#9 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:43 am

That machine has an AMD 386 CPU, as shown on pic https://ibb.co/Jncdv3M
The empty slot to the right is for a co-processor.

On pic https://ibb.co/2Wqc6y7 there's a blue cylinder, which AFAIK would be the CMOS-battery.
Probably 3 cells soldered together onto the mobo.
Replacing that/them might bring the machine back to life.

The SST-2845 is a IDE controller card for HDD/Floppy.

The long KAC card at the top looks to me like a Serial/Parallel port card.

axur-delmeria · #10 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:30 am

Oh, it's a standard Mini-AT board, but with a riser!? Never seen one.

It's a 386SX 33MHz, a 32-bit CPU like the 386DX, but with a 16-bit I/O bus and 24-bit memory address bus (16MB max RAM) like the 286. It allows for cheaper boards, since motherboard designers can adapt existing 286-based designs instead of implementing the 386DX's 32-bit I/O bus. But this one is a late-era design given how compact it is, and the 1992 manufacture date on the OPTi chipset.

The SST-2845 card is a super I/O board featuring floppy, IDE, serial, parallel, and joystick/game ports. The MC1488 and MC1489 chips are serial port line drivers. IIRC the NE558C is a quad 555 timer that's the core of the joystick port. The date codes on the chips put it at 1992 at the latest. :O

The KAC board is definitely a video controller-- the large UM6845 chip is a dead giveaway. Could be a MDA/Hercules Graphics or a CGA video card. The DB25 port on the same card appears to be a parallel port, based on the presence of the 74LS374 chip, which is usually used in parallel ports. This card is much older than the SS-2845, due to the larger number of discrete 74LS series chips and the markings indicating that they were manufactured in 1987. :O

Given its age, it may have been salvaged from another PC and installed on this PC after the original video card conked out.

4 30-pin SIMMs, maybe 256KB each? Looks like the ones in our old PC.

And yes, the blue cylinder is a 3-cell NiCd rechargeable battery. Check for signs of corrosion (greenish powdery residue) around it-- that's how a number of our old motherboards died while in storage.

beshad · #11 Post by **beshad** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:22 pm

awesome information guys thanks so much

i guess my priory is to try to get some video signal out of this now, is it possible to buy an adapter to convert whatever port coming out the video card to VGA? or easier/cheaper to buy an old PCI graphic card, fitted it in and connect a normal VGA screen that way?

also what kinf of keyboard and moue connects to this? there is no PS2 at the back, only one larger which looks like a 5 pin DIN?

theterminator93 · #12 Post by **theterminator93** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:22 pm

That's for the keyboard - it's a full size DIN connector. They do make PS/2 Mini-DIN adapter plugs you can use with newer keyboards. If you need a mouse you will need to use one of the serial DB9 ports with a serial mouse, or use a PS/2 Mini-DIN to DB-9 serial adapter to use a PS/2 mouse.

axur-delmeria · #13 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:38 am

I still have a DIN to PS/2 adapter, but I'm not letting it go.

See if you can find an ISA VGA card-- that computer predates PCI so a PCI video card wont work at all. That's the only way I know how. CGA uses digital signalling to drive the monitor, while VGA is analog.

#14 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:58 am

If that KAC-card is indeed a graphics card, you'll need a 9-15-pin adapter, such as this: https://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/co ... A-Adapter/
Plus a standard 15-pin VGA cable.

axur-delmeria · #15 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:24 am

RealBlackStuff wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:58 am
If that KAC-card is indeed a graphics card, you'll need a 9-15-pin adapter, such as this: https://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/co ... A-Adapter/
Plus a standard 15-pin VGA cable.

You sure that one will work, RBS? The link mentions it's for Acorn computers with VGA graphics but only 9-pin D-shell port.

I don't know any VGA card that's built with discrete components. According to Wikipedia, VGA uses 25.175 and 28.322 MHz crystal oscillators, while the card in the picture only shows a 16MHz one. I'm thinking it's a Hercules-compatible card.

beshad · #16 Post by **beshad** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:03 pm

three more photos of the card is helps:

https://ibb.co/YD4dddQ
https://ibb.co/3YtH3Yy
https://ibb.co/4WsnJtQ

is it possible to put a very old VGA PCI graphic card in there?would it need drivers?

axur-delmeria · #17 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:19 pm

beshad wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:03 pm
three more photos of the card is helps:

https://ibb.co/YD4dddQ
https://ibb.co/3YtH3Yy
https://ibb.co/4WsnJtQ

is it possible to put a very old VGA PCI graphic card in there?would it need drivers?

A PCI graphics card won't work on that computer-- there are no PCI slots at all, only 8-bit and 16-bit ISA.

You'll need something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIDENT-TVGA89 ... 3743901741

Man, these pictures sure are fueling my nostalgia-- was lucky to experience building a few of these when mydad's workplace started retiring their old PCs.

beshad · #18 Post by **beshad** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:36 pm

i know i feel the same when i look at it. my very first computer was a 386DX at high school because i could not afford a 486, had a massive 4MB of ram and a 80mb hard drive though. i will be stoked if this computer also has 4MB ram, the HDD is 43mb apparently

will be thoroughly cleaning this up and reassemble everything again this weekend. i picked up this 5 pin DIn keybaord at the same time: https://ibb.co/Ct5ScNh so as soon as i have a way to connect monitor to it i can find out more about it. mouse should not be hard i think

so you reckon only way i can get video out of this computer is via the existing card and an adapter? is there a way that i can find and buy a more common video card and add to this?

axur-delmeria · #19 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:07 pm

Well, the alternative is to find a monitor that works with the video card that you already have. Just keep looking, I guess?

~~~
A quick search found this video converter to VGA, but it's a tad bit expensive: https://monotech.fwscart.com/EternalCRT ... 78791.aspx

#20 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:03 am

That KAC card could be CGA, EGA or VGA, but IMHO is probably monochrome.
The 9-pin pin-out can be found here: http://old.pinouts.ru/Video/VGA9_pinout.shtml
The adapter I linked to earlier, is for general use, not just an Acorn, so should work with a regular VGA cable/monitor.

hopgarden53 · #21 Post by **hopgarden53** » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:12 am

RealBlackStuff wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:03 am
That KAC card could be CGA, EGA or VGA, but IMHO is probably monochrome.
The 9-pin pin-out can be found here: http://old.pinouts.ru/Video/VGA9_pinout.shtml
The adapter I linked to earlier, is for general use, not just an Acorn, so should work with a regular VGA cable/monitor.

The KAC card is obviously a "Monochrome Display Adapter" (female DE9, IBM literature: MDA) combined with parallell (printer) port ( female DB25, LPT). Standard expansion card for IBM PC (1980-) because there were only processor, memory and keyboard logics on motherboard.
Or it could be a Hercules MDA card which is monochrome graphics capable too.
CGA and EGA adapters have 1 or 2 (EGA) RCA connectors and DIP switches (EGA) together with female DE9 connector.
VGA is not possible because it is a single chip implementation.

hopgarden53 · #22 Post by **hopgarden53** » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:18 am

Motherboard manual:

http://www.rainbow-software.org/manuals/sxbb.html

"I/O options: None" => adapter boards required for "everything needed" (except keyboard).

SST-2845 is a multi/IO card (IDE/Floppy/Parallel/Serial x 2/Game).
KAC is a video (MDA) + parallel (printer) card.

So the cheapest/easiest option would be a ISA VGA card. No need to buy any converters or a mono TTL monitor - and the 2nd parallel port is not needed.

beshad · #23 Post by **beshad** » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:21 pm

thanks yeah i started searching for a ISA graphic card which would be the cheapest and easiest option i guess. there are few for sale on ebay like this one for $20

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Trident-T ... 3394909733

just thinking if it would be simple plug in and use it or it worn't work without drivers?

there are even some SoundBlaster sound cards and network ISA cards out there,

great help guys.

axur-delmeria · #24 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:35 pm

If it's DOS you don't need any drivers.

beshad · #25 Post by **beshad** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:58 am

cheers guys. started to reassemble the computer after amending the cut wires and cleaning. three questions:

https://ibb.co/V9Ysc2x does floppy drive also needs power going in it? there is a four pin connector at the back of floppy and i have a 4 pin coming out of PSU

https://ibb.co/XWY8M0v i have a red and white wire which is HDD light, could not find any place for it on the motherboard so i am guessing it goes on the ISO card, looking at the photo do you know where?

https://ibb.co/vsdZ7hZ the IO card connectors don't have the indicators to which way the cables connects to it normally there is cut in middle to guide which direction the cables connect. this card doesn't have any, how do i know what direction i should push in the cables?

https://ibb.co/D98ktPf same with this key lock and power LED 4 pin what way is the right way?

#26 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:27 am

Floppy: needs that small 4-pin power cable.

HDD: leave red/white be, it's not needed for now.

I/O card: the grey-dotted (lowest on that pic) wire on that cable goes to pin 1 on CN1.

Power LED: red cable is most likely the Plus, black the Minus/Ground.
The way that cable is bent, it probably went on as you show it right now, i.e green = left, black = right.

hopgarden53 · #27 Post by **hopgarden53** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:07 am

In order to find at least some cable orientations you can "spy" your own pictures in this post ... the pictures before!

HDD light is not needeed before anything else works. Then it is very simple to test without fear of any damage.

beshad · #28 Post by **beshad** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:03 am

thanks for all the help guys, as always awesome forum to seek information and help here.

throughly cleaned up the computer, repaired anything needed fixing and assembled it. as soon as this quarantine is over I will get an ISA graphic card and a mouse so i can explore the installed software.then if everything works i might go as far as retro-briting (sun-briting actually) the front face and respraying the casing.

axur-delmeria · #29 Post by **axur-delmeria** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:24 am

Another item you may want to get is a diagnostic POST card: https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Digit-Card-P ... 2204308791

This can help you check if the computer works even without a display.

cadillacmike68 · #30 Post by **cadillacmike68** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:39 pm

beshad wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:36 pm
i know i feel the same when i look at it. my very first computer was a 386DX at high school because i could not afford a 486, had a massive 4MB of ram and a 80mb hard drive though. i will be stoked if this computer also has 4MB ram, the HDD is 43mb apparently

will be thoroughly cleaning this up and reassemble everything again this weekend. i picked up this 5 pin DIn keybaord at the same time: https://ibb.co/Ct5ScNh so as soon as i have a way to connect monitor to it i can find out more about it. mouse should not be hard i think

so you reckon only way i can get video out of this computer is via the existing card and an adapter? is there a way that i can find and buy a more common video card and add to this?

Look for an old ATI VGA Wonder card.

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