OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

[dr_st]

Who cares? Last time I checked this was a ThinkPad forum, not my grandpappies Facebook page.

I think the owner of this forum has the last say on that... even though I dont agree with him, its still ultimately his choice.

You may not agree with him, but you sure seem happy to participate in the political chit-chat. One has to go a month back to find a post of yours in a technical topic.

[TonyJZX]

Because this site doesnt seem to want to move towards Ryzen units. I have two and no one seems to think AMD amounts to anything....

At least I dont cut and run like others.

[789]

descend into

Were we somewhere high up that now we need to descend ?
In 1864 the popular war-time president, honest Abraham Lincoln needed vote fraud to gain re-election. To this day honest-Abe is the patron saint of the Republican party.
In 1960 John Kennedy needed vote fraud to acquire the Presidency. Shortly after he was shot, Kennedy became a saint and remained that way.
In 1992, without voting machines, Ross Perot would have become President of the United States.

If you read old newspapers, you notice that vote fraud is a tradition, practiced by Federalists from Alex Hamilton to giant Kamala.
Albany Argus, September, 1840:

At the fall election of 1838, Ritner and the Whig party in Pennsylvania, now the leading friends of Harrison in that State, sought to retain their power by the most atrocious violations of the integrity of the ballot-box. The monstrous frauds in Adams county ---Thaddeus Stevens's county--- are notorious, and beyond contradiction. They have become matter of history, and stand out, dark and darn exhibitions of the desperation and profligacy to which Federalism will descend when the emergency is the hope or the hazard of political power. Upwards of 1,100 spurious votes were brought into a single township of that county; and 1,200 majority obtained Mr. Ritner, where before nor since has the poll exceeded 150 votes !

[TonyJZX]

You forgot the wonderful G.W. Bush thing with Florida.

[exTPfan]

A lot of the stuff in this, and other recent threads has been so ugly that I want no part of it, so I'm quitting the site for good. Please delete my registration.

[pkiff]

SO, i have a pod cast from a lawyer at the Pittsburgh vote counting place.. he tells you how the dems cheatm are cheating.. here is the link.. it is ok, no ads..
[...] if this man, and others who witnessed the dem cheating, can not get the federal courts to force a fair count, then the legislature should give the entire PA election to trump [...] the cheating is BLATANT..

It is no doubt unwise for me to weigh in on any of this as an outsider - it's not my country, and not my business. At the same time, I have been trying to better understand opposing viewpoints over the past couple years, if only in an attempt to uncover my own biases. And this forum probably brings me closer to more Trump supporters than anywhere else I go.

So I read through this transcript. And I honestly tried to check into some of the claims this lawyer makes. A few claims seem more legitimate to me than others - for example, apparently, observers in some counting locations were indeed kept a long way from the actual counting - at least for a while - and very possibly during the "pre-canvassing" period that this lawyer seems to think is the critical period. But overall, to me, none of this comes across as strong evidence of "blatant" cheating. There is no real "evidence" here at all. There are a bunch of second-hand reports from phone lines. And this lawyer didn't see people cheating - he didn't see ballots being added or mis-sorted or mis-counted: he saw some rules being bent or broken first-hand. It's a big leap to go from that suspicion of cheating to blatant cheating. He honestly doesn't seem very convincing to me. I'm not saying there is no way there was cheating, but there are so many other more likely explanations for most of the problems he lists.

And looking at it from a 10,000 foot view, none of it makes sense. If someone were going to coordinate an effort to steal the election, all these small cases would be too risky, don't you think? I mean, the long list of different cheating methods - setting the vote counting machines to non-zero numbers to start, smuggling ballots into a counting area where you expected to be watched in person and with video, standing around a polling station hoping to be asked to help with someone's ballot and then directing them to vote for someone they didn't intend - that's not a great cheating strategy! And you would need thousands and thousands of ballots. Someone snuck all those ballots into the counting room and managed to mix them in with other ballots without being noticed? Or was the entire counting room in on the cheat? The risk would be enormous for such a small number of votes and such a high risk of going to prison - especially if you imagine that the Democrats were doing this in other states at the same time, including states that they supposedly thought they would be able to win without cheating. And you would have to repeat all those same things across multiple counting locations, with multiple people, all coordinated, using more than one method of cheating. It just seems terribly unlikely to me as an explanation. It would have required not just a few people, but perhaps hundreds of people, all coordinated together, working against the democracy that Americans hold so dear. And no one blew the whistle in person? Again, I'm not saying the Democrats were angels, but I'm still struggling to find some convincing evidence about their "cheating".

[TonyJZX]

https://twitter.com/votevets/status/1325864867073421312

Yeah he loves the military.

And its ironic because he did a mail in vote since he's registered at a golf course. Makes sense...

[BillMorrow]

https://everylegalvote.com/country

[cadillacmike68]

Interesting. OH & FL tell it all, more than double the margin of the past election to nearly 400,000 votes each stat. And that's with my wife's entire dingbat uneducated family voting for biden.

If this travesty holds through they will be the first to complain about not having any money.....

[RealBlackStuff]

Amazing that in the above everylegalvote link apparently they only discovered legal fraud against Trump.
No legal fraud against Biden?
But then nobody needs to wait for all the illegal fraud by Trump, that's already been well covered over the last 4 years.
'Nuff said.

[Ibthink]

Will the President’s Lawsuits Overturn the Election?

[RealBlackStuff]

Republicans Are 0 For 10 In Lawsuits Seeking To Overturn Biden's Election Win by Stephen Colbert.

[TitoLabieno]

I usually don't like to participate in this kind of arguments, but this is begining to look ugly, doesn't matter which forum or social network you browse, you find always this kind of posts.
I will tell you what I'm seeing as an outsider (European): You are causing a LOT of insecurity in the western world. It is not just about America. I was already tired of seeing tons and tons of posts of "register now to vote", "go vote", "doesn't matter your candidate, just vote" in every social media for 3-4 months, so I'm not surprised by the high participation this election has got. Those who claim it is fraud because a lot of people voted are just unaware of their surrounding IMHO. Even I, who had never paid attention to foreign elections, have been following the result closely.
Trump knew he had a big problem if the people who usually don't go to vote actually voted because it could backfire and that's why he has been trying for months to deligitimate the election results. How can you predict fraud will happen months before? Was he acknowledging he had been so incompetent for the last 4 years to the point of breaking the electoral system?
It looks like he will do whatever he can to stay in power, just like good old dictators. We know what happens when someone actually rigs the election system (look at Spain 100 years ago, as an Spaniard I advise you against it, really), America is not having that problem. It's just Trump claiming it because he doesn't want to lose. He values more his ego than the democracy, you guys really need to get over it, he is being abusive with you.
I really hope to see America as a lighthouse of hope again, not as a paradise of lies and hate.

[bgx]

Everylegalvotecont. Sure. But what is the methodology?

"Here is a video showing 19,958 votes taken from Trump and given to Biden at 10:23pm on election night."
Where is the video?

"It is very unlikely that 100,000 people walked into the voting booth or mailed in a ballot that only voted for Biden and not the other candidates."
so you mean democrats are amateurs not knowing how to cheat properly, unlike Trump? You think they are happy to loose senate?

Fraud in GA? How can a 100% Republican controlled state be frauded by the other party? IF there is fraud, it is always for the people controlling the state (PA by Democrats - I dont believe so, but it is credible. GA by democrats - wake up guys, this is absurd, makes no sense, and just show that some people are unhappy about the real results and try to steal the election - Trump supporters).

This one is a gem:
"MIT says there is fraud in PA".
Click the link. Find a random tweeter guy (not MIT, just one guy claiming to (mis)use one unknown tool from MIT - with no link or methodology) saying:
Using the trends from MIT math gurus findings in Michigan analysis. It fits their hypothesis that more red a county for trump more vote were probably transferred to JB. The Darker blue shows most improvement over 2016% for JB.

So, again, very red county frauding for Biden? Are you serious? That there can be fraud in Super democrat county where Republican cant access - It is imaginable, but that they go fraud in every very Red county and republican let it be done, like are you serious? If anything, this is the proof that many Trump voters or independant were infuriated with the way Trump misused the President power for his own personal interest.
Very credible untrusted twitter guy.

another link:
https://twitter.com/LizRNC/status/1326210300576739328
"Unusual turnout in Democrat-controlled areas "
"That's a 9.8% increase of ballots for Biden over Hillary".
And like nationwide, what was the increase of overall ballots, both for Biden and for Trump?
Sure, it is a big fraud, since Trump ended up in this county with 29%, while it was 28% 4 years ago. Big news: Democrat county votes more for democrats than for republican!! No way?? So Trump won more votes proportionaly compared to 4 years ago. So who cheated again?

None of this claim makes any sense, and actually prove the opposite of what they try to prove: if anyone cheated, it s Trump!

Can you imagine Biden or Trump being elected president of RUSSIA after fraud? Come on.


I saw the little orangy thing in every county. But how are they obtained? Or are they computed by the fantasy of the webmaster just to pretend Biden didnt win?
Someone can enlighted me wiht that?

[hiram]

There's no such thing as "non-partisan" news organization in this country.

NPR comes close. They have been accused of having both liberal and conservative bias before. If a news organization is blamed by both sides of having some slant against them, then I then to believe that they are telling the truth.

You can still be biased and tell the truth. When the economy plunged in the second quarter, NPR reported the decline as an annualised amount. In the most recent quarter (just before the election) they reported the strong growth as the quarterly figure. The increase was greater than the second quarter decline but that's not how they made it look.
2nd quarter: https://www.facebook.com/NPR/posts/1015 ... 0312161756
3rd quarter: https://www.facebook.com/NPR/posts/the- ... 545756756/

[dr_st]

"Here is a video showing 19,958 votes taken from Trump and given to Biden at 10:23pm on election night."
Where is the video?

The video exists. I've seen it. It was on a CNN live broadcast, where they were showing totals for each state. At some point between two consecutive shows for Wisconsin (I think) the numbers changed so that Trump had lost votes and Biden had gained the same number of votes. This does not prove any fraud, it may have been a mistake where the earlier number was wrong.

Fraud in GA? How can a 100% Republican controlled state be frauded by the other party? IF there is fraud, it is always for the people controlling the state

I reacted to this claim before, and I will again - the assumption that the state controls everything is stupid. Most corruption, everywhere, happens at the local levels. That does not mean that anything like this occurred, just that your argument (that something is possible locally in PA but not in GA because of the different party affiliation of the state government) is amateurish.

[bgx]

"Here is a video showing 19,958 votes taken from Trump and given to Biden at 10:23pm on election night."
Where is the video?

The video exists. I've seen it. It was on a CNN live broadcast, where they were showing totals for each state. At some point between two consecutive shows for Wisconsin (I think) the numbers changed so that Trump had lost votes and Biden had gained the same number of votes. This does not prove any fraud, it may have been a mistake where the earlier number was wrong.

Fraud in GA? How can a 100% Republican controlled state be frauded by the other party? IF there is fraud, it is always for the people controlling the state

I reacted to this claim before, and I will again - the assumption that the state controls everything is stupid. Most corruption, everywhere, happens at the local levels. That does not mean that anything like this occurred, just that your argument (that something is possible locally in PA but not in GA because of the different party affiliation of the state government) is amateurish.

Again, if you tell me a very democratic county in a red state can cheat for democrats, i d say: may be.
But I really dont believe a red county in a red state can cheat for Biden. No way! And that's what happened in many counties throughout the US. It is not fraud, it i called a trend. Few percent of Republican/Independant voters got fed up with Trump and shifted (e.g. stupidiest claim ever made by a president: "why don't we drink detergeant to kill the virus?". And that is fact). According to the number of Republican in administration who voiced against Trump after seeing first hand his behavior, I dont undertsand how you can be surprised by the result of the election! If anything, Trump resisted a lot more than most suspected, kudos to him, but it is not enough for him to have won. Of course, when you are president of the US, you can always try to steal the election by pretending there is a vast amount of fraud. Are fraud possible? yes. Is there any proof? No - not yet at least. There have been some weird stuff happening, and I am 100% sure Republican are following them through, and that if anything was fraudulent there will find it. So far: nothing. As long as it will stay this way, there is no reason to spread BS over the internet. Wait and see!

[dr_st]

Oh, even if you completely disregard the possibility of fraud, I'm not surprised Trump lost the election; although, you and I would possibly disagree on the reasons why he lost.

[bgx]

Oh, even if you completely disregard the possibility of fraud, I'm not surprised Trump lost the election; although, you and I would possibly disagree on the reasons why he lost.

So why do you think he lost, I am curious ?
If you think it is because He was not extreme enough ? . He didnt support Bibi enough? He didnt bomb Iran enough? - then yes, we do not agree! .

I was not talking to you when i said dont be surprised he lost . It was generally at those who claim the election was stolen by democrats because of massive fraud while republican are too angelic to even know fraud was possible (right?). I dont deny there may be fraud here and there, but I dont know who benefitted, and i cant see any indication of a massive fraud for one side. Statistically, everything seems perfectly fine, there have been some voters shift towards one or the other, etc, slightly more for Biden, and at the end he won.

If anything, Children crying for wolf does not help finding the fraud if any, because they shout too loud and too often, and >99% of what they shout at is explanable and legit (see post above). Let adults handle things, if there are fraud, it will be caught. Unless your ultimate motive is not to find the fraud, but to steal the election (looking at Mr most powerful man in the world for 2 more months).

[BillMorrow]

well, i'm going to weigh in, here.. just to remark that it is common knowledge the democrat party cheats.. (chicago anyone?)
the recount process was used to ultimately defeat a winning senate candidate by 300 MOL votes and got a leftist comedian a senate seat..
same for an oriental, err, vietnamese lady, in the california central valley several cycles ago.. i remember her because i donated to her campaign..

republicans are much too goody goody to cheat, i have first hand knowledge on this one.. ask if you want the story..

and yes, i do support trump.. first i voted for ted cruz, when trump won the primary i was more than a little skeptical but most any democrat and especially hillary was a NO for me so trump got my vote..
while i think his manner and way are very jarring his record gets a 95% from me..
you can look it up on the 'net so i'll not repeat it here.. & other drugs,

watching biden, who won't be president elect until the electoral college meets and votes, undo every good thing trump has done makes me want to vomit.. biden's handlers will open the southern border to anyone who wants to sell sex slaves, children, fentanyl & other drugs, sick people wanting free health care that WE will be forced to pay for and of course, lower wages to those not favored with a good education and culture..

there is so much more that frightens me so i hope we republicans can beat biden and get trump another 4 years..
a nuclear iran is just one thing and the breakdown of the mideast peace now starting..

there is so much more that speaks against any democrat controlled administration..

there, rant ended, for now..

and please remember, no invective, trolling or the like..
lets keep it clean and cordial between us all..

[dr_st]

So why do you think he lost, I am curious ?
If you think it is because He was not extreme enough ? . He didnt support Bibi enough? He didnt bomb Iran enough? - then yes, we do not agree! .

Oh, no, it's far simpler, and has nothing to do with foreign policy. Should be pretty obvious, which is why most people won't get it. No idea why you would suggest those bizarre causes above, except to provoke me, so no thanks.

[bgx]

I agree that we should all respect each other on Thinkpads .

I wont talk politics, and again, i undertand true republican dont want democrats as president - that's perfectly understandable.
All you said is about Rep vs Dem, We dont agree, but there is nothing objectable about thinking what you think.

I will talk about Trump (remember, he wanted to go to Democrat primary first - he probably understood he would not stand a chance there). He is not your average republican.

Do you think Trump "is much too goody goody to cheat"? Not talking about your average religious republican, but Trump himself, who "grabs women by the [censored]?".

I dont see Biden doing a second term. He should never have been elect in the first place, if it wasnt Trump against him. can we agree on that? Can you stop supporting Trump now? Trump is gone anyway, and focus on the next republican candidate, who will be a true republican.

[bgx]

So why do you think he lost, I am curious ?
If you think it is because He was not extreme enough ? . He didnt support Bibi enough? He didnt bomb Iran enough? - then yes, we do not agree! .

Oh, no, it's far simpler, and has nothing to do with foreign policy. Should be pretty obvious, which is why most people won't get it. No idea why you would suggest those bizarre causes above, except to provoke me, so no thanks.

If you mean economy was not doing great because of Covid - well then yes we can agree on this one . Just say for god sake!

[dr_st]

If you mean economy was not doing great because of Covid - well then yes we can agree on this one . Just say for god sake!

Yep, I guess this would be that.

[rkawakami]

If the Chicago reference is about the 1960 election, then I can't see what happened 60 years ago has to do with today. I was 4 when that happened and had to Google it. Yes, Daley had one of the most corrupt political machines in the era, but he's not alive right now, along with probably all of the other Dems from then. If you're saying that the entire Democratic party is corrupt, then I can't help you with that thinking. I don't believe that the entire Republican party is corrupt, just several of them. It's also common knowledge that Republicans cheat too. They call it redistricting (like Dems do too if they're in power), or intentionally slowing down the USPS on the eve of a presidential election, or gutting Amendment 4 in FL by passing laws enacting what amounts to a poll tax, or having armed citizens (not police) stand outside a polling location to provide "protection" but what's effectively voter intimidation, or reports of robocalls being received telling people they need to stay inside due to COVID-19 or they could vote past Nov. 3rd, or having only ONE ballot dropoff location per county in Texas. That happened this cycle and is more relevant than what happened 60 years ago.

The recount process and mainly the SCOTUS got Bush the election in 2000. You can't be quiet about a process that yielded a good result for Reps, then turn around and complain that recounts are bad when Dems win, if you are referring to Al Franken in MN. All I can say is that the Democrats were weak on that one and caved too easily when they asked Franken to step down.

As a side note: If you were happy that Franken was booted from the Senate for the behaviors he was accused of, then you should also be happy that the same thing would happen to Trump given his past history (paying off two women who allege they had affairs with him, the numerous lawsuits against him by women who allege unwanted contact, etc.). Or does being a Republican politician magically afford a hall pass?

As far as the "goody goody" Reps.... Imagine if Republicans and the evangelicals withdrew their support for Trump when the p***y tape came out because they were shocked by his lack of morality, character and decency. Oh yeah, I can't either because they are so honest and decent (sarcasm).

As long as the Reps maintain control of the Senate, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. McConnell and Graham will probably block democracy in its track. If, however, the GA senate races swing Democratic....

[pm23885]

1. I hope all legal challenges are made as well as a full investigation of this elections be made in as exhaustive fashion as possible.
2. Let all the witnesses come forward and put a statement under oath.
2. The Republicans are still in the WH, control the Senate as well as control over these states that are now in the middle of the dispute.
3. The Republicans control the Supreme Court, let us all get behind them and put the truth to the test.
4. The nation deserves to know the truth and be led the the real winner.
5. If in the end, after the recounts and lawsuits, Biden still wins, will it be enough? Will you accept the result?
6. Remember that Republicans do not have a monopoly of patriots, people who love the USA.

[Ibthink]

It's also common knowledge that Republicans cheat too. They call it redistricting (like Dems do too if they're in power), or intentionally slowing down the USPS on the eve of a presidential election, or gutting Amendment 4 in FL by passing laws enacting what amounts to a poll tax, or having armed citizens (not police) stand outside a polling location to provide "protection" but what's effectively voter intimidation, or reports of robocalls being received telling people they need to stay inside due to COVID-19 or they could vote past Nov. 3rd, or having only ONE ballot dropoff location per county in Texas. That happened this cycle and is more relevant than what happened 60 years ago.

Republicans are a minority party for several years now - they have to game the system as much as possible, because they can not hope to get the power otherwise. The political system of the US gives them a lot of abilities to do this.

The great tragedy of the US political system is that the FPTP system used is meant to provide a stable government. But in reality, it does the opposite - democrats have to be a big-tent party that spans from social-democrat and liberal to soft conservative (which isn't terrible stable), while the Republicans have become more and more radicalized since the 1960s. In other countries, they would have long lost their political standing, but because the system favors two big parties, they could become more and more radical with no penalty. Their libertarian policies have destroyed the US infrastructure, weakened organizations like unions and opened the flood-gates for infinite money to flow into the political system...Trump is just the tip of the iceberg.

But look out, the democrats want to create a universal health-care system (like in every other industrialized western country)!

[rkawakami]

Republicans are a minority party for several years now - they have to game the system as much as possible, because they can not hope to get the power otherwise. The political system of the US gives them a lot of abilities to do this.

That's somewhat true. While I'm sure that there was some cross-party voting taking place last week, almost 72M people voted for Trump. That's slightly less than half of the total votes. I wouldn't call that a minority.

[Ibthink]

But in pretty much every other democratic country, one party getting 50.8 % of the vote and one getting 47.4 % of the vote would result in very clear political majorities. Due to the US system, it seems close - but the fact remains that more than 5 million people preferred Biden over Trump. Look at the last 30 years - Republicans only carried a single popular vote in the presidential election. Democrats won every single one since 1992, other than 2004.

The way a political system is set up influences how political parties behave. If Republicans didn't have tools like gerrymandering, the electoral college or the senate that gives a state like Wyoming the same political weight as California, they would not be able to be as radical as they are. They would have to be moderate to be competitive. As things stand, they are likely to keep the senate and keep America in a gridlock, where pretty much nothing gets done.

For this reason, the priority of Democrats should be to repair the political system - namely, get rid of the electoral college (or at least get rid of the "winner takes all" rule for the electors) and add DC and Puerto Rico as states in the senate to balance it better. The first thing might be possible if Texas turns blue at some point in the future, cause if the Democrats can claim Texas with "winner takes all" in place, Republicans can not get the presidency again.

[cadillacmike68]

DC has no bearing on becoming a state. It was never intended to be. Guam, or even Samoa, has a better claim for statehood than DC. They already have electoral votes. If DC wants to help elect senators, then they can be counted with MD. The district was carved out MD, so that would make sense.

Puerto Rico DOES NOT want to be a state. I know this first hand.

The "electoral college" is part of the constitution and there is NO WAY that 66 / 75% (whatever the required percentage) of states would approve a constitutional amendment. IF the dems ever dare to call a constitutional convention they will get their a$$es handed to them. Perhaps the process can be simplified but the # of "electoral votes" per state concept is NOT going away.

As I noted before, a candidate need only to win ELEVEN states to win a presidential election.

I like how folks who do not even live here have all these things that the US "MUST DO" to "CORRECT" our political process. you all stumbled into world war twice and We pulled the world's a$$ out of the fire twice (2.5 with Korea) and protected it from the soviet threat for over 50 years. We don't need outsiders telling us how to run our country and how to change our constitution.