What OS to use once Win 10 support ends?

[babysheegoth]

Curious what other's plans are after support officially ends or if some are already happy with non-windows OS.

[TPFanatic]

I’ll run Linux mint or live dangerous with out-of-date Windows, probably the latter.

[RealBlackStuff]

I'm still running W7 on my daily used T440p.
No updates since 2018, still going strong!

[ZaZ]

I haven't decided yet. I still use WIndows 10 on my main desktop and prefer to use Windows on my desktop for a few programs I use. I bought the desktop in 2020 and when Windows 11 came out I tried to upgrade to Windows 11 after a fresh install of Windows 10. It ran so poorly I had to go back to Windows 10. I tried a couple more time with the same results, so I figured Windows 11 wasn't in my future, but then I bought my L14. It came with Windows 11 Pro, so I figured I could downgrade if needed, but I did a fresh install of Windows 11 and it runs great, so I wonder if I do a fresh install on my desktop as opposed to an in-place upgrade, will it run better? When the time comes I'll do a fresh install. if it works, great, but if not I can always live with Windows 10.

[mikemex]

Windows 11. Is there even a realistic alternative?

[axur-delmeria]

Win 10 LTSC?

[600X]

I only use Windows on my gaming desktops and those have been running Windows 11 since it was available.

I don't really use laptops anymore but when I do, I just install whatever Linux distro I feel like trying at the time. Windows on laptops hasn't been viable for me since the disaster that was Windows 10.

[babysheegoth]

Windows 11. Is there even a realistic alternative?

Thought it wasn't compatible?

[dr_st]

Because of LTSC, Windows 10 will remain de-facto supported for a long time after support officially ends. Until 2029, maybe 2032 in some flavors.

So it will still be a perfectly viable OS for contemporary machines. New systems can use Win11.

If you want something else (Linux, Unix, BSD, etc.) - that's a separate question - which, IMO, should be decided, regardless of the state of 'support'.

[Crumbs]

Unless you do not go online I wouldn't run a OS post-security updates, re Windows 7 comment above. You are just asking to be pwnd, and you won't necessarily even know it because who has time to track all the CVNs and their implications.

I've seen references in different forums to windows 11 running on T420 and newer hardware even when they are not officially compatible. It may run on older hardware I wasn't searching for. I suspect it doesn't run great.

Re linux. I've run linux on almost every thinkpad I've owned, except the Z60m. Everyone has their favorites and selecting a distribution gets into the politics of whether you want to flatpak, etc or not. As well as if you care about country of origin for the foundation that mostly runs the project. Then you have to ask what kind of GUI you want. For older hardware focus on lightweight like X derivatives LXCE, XFCE variants, though a T60/T61 will run Mint Cinnamon just fine if you accept it is slower. I haven't tried on the ancient T770 in a long time and I'd just choose an X derivative to avoid the frustration.

• If you want to go deep on documentation and like having control NixOS or Gentoo. I would not recommend for a Linux noob.
• If you want to run a liveCD and have a friendly graphical installer look at distros like:
  • smaller: AntiX and MXLinux
  • larger: Debian (stable older), Mint (stable some newer but also some Ubuntu software politics), Ubuntu

Response biased by my experience so no Arch, Redhat/CentOS/Oracle, Suse etc recommendations. If you want to deep-dive options check out distrowatch.com to learn about the wide variety of linux distros you can run. Select a liveCD, give it enough time to fully boot and take an OS for a spin.

[mikemex]

Windows 11. Is there even a realistic alternative?

Thought it wasn't compatible?

Compatible with what? If you're talking about machines like T420 and such, those are already over 10 years old and are not supported officially by even Windows 10. So anyone running a T420 with Windows 10 was running a hacked OS... ten years go! That's why I decided to give away my old stuff (even my beloved X1C5, which now belongs to my sister running a hacked version of W11): it's not realistic to expect to keep running a laptop forever.

The only old machine I'm going to keep is my X301 because 1) I love it and 2) It's way past EOL for anyone to fully appreciate it but me. One of this days I'm going to install FreeDOS, Windows XP and all the stuff you can't run on a modern machine.

[farmall]

There are well -studied and understood safe methods for running W10 LTSC and W11 on hardware their "planned obsolescence" hardware check otherwise rejects.
CPU and TPM checks can be bypassed. Note you own the hardware and lawfully use the OS if you paid for it through proper channels.

Microsoft even publishes the info on its own fora as the idea caught so much customer blowback (like by people with very recent fast PCs!). BTW changing a registry setting isn't really a "hack" that's just popular usage that stuck. If a registry setting were never to be altered there would be zero point in offering that user option in the first place.

Safe activation methods exist whose commands are simply and easily understood by opening batch files in your preferred text editor. Some are detected by AV as false positives which is common. Those interested will study the matter. I've not time to type the internet.
Overview:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/byp ... equirement

Comparing W10 versions by EOL is interesting. Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2) does not have extended support and support will end on 12 January 2027. Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2), on the other hand, will receive extended support until 13 January 2032.

Rufus is outstanding for making install media including Linux which has many devs and users who are Thinkpad enthusiasts.
I normally run Xubuntu and W10 on my T61s but Mint is popular these days and a safe choice.

Owners with Ultrabay caddies can of course boot from more than one hdd to sample a variety of OS. (I remove the main hdd when installing to another drive to protect my boot records.)
Those not sure if an OS will suit their desires can install to a cheap small SSD (there being no point crippling a perfectly good Thinkpad with power hungry spinning rust) . If you use a version of Rufus that makes Windows To Go install media you can swap even more reliably between PCs or boot from a USB adapter.

I've also live booted Strelec's WinPE (Major Geeks is a safe site), Kali Linux, Bob's OMB WinPE build and various other toolkit builds. If you for some reason (like not wanting writeable media when inspecting a hard disk for nasties) prefer to boot a live CD or DVD T61s reliably do so
but I recommend burning at the slowest speed possible for best burn. I like the old CDRWIN trial since it's limited to 1x anyway. I've burned live CDs since 1999 and slow burns function best.

[knitinr]

After Windows 7, I upgraded my Thinkpad T60 to Windows 10... but it was almost unusable when booting from a hard disk drive.

It was then that I decided to move to LUbuntu, and after LUbuntu stopped providing ISOs of newer versions for the 32-bit CPU, I moved to Debian.

With Debian, I am able to run just about any modern software that still supports 32-bit CPUs. It's good enough to handle web browsing and email.

[micrex22]

Curious what other's plans are after support officially ends or if some are already happy with non-windows OS.

Well, Windows 10 LTSC is supported until 2032, so no worries for me

[TPFanatic]

Assuming no piracy...

Is it not like XP where an unlicensed version won't kick you out from using the OS?

At least with my installs of not-activated consumer Win 10 Pro N, the only thing paywalled is customization.

[micrex22]

Assuming no piracy...

Is it not like XP where an unlicensed version won't kick you out from using the OS?

At least with my installs of not-activated consumer Win 10 Pro N, the only thing paywalled is customization.

With 21H2 LTSC you can just use Powershell to activate it against Microsoft's KMS servers (doesn't work with 1809 which does require purchasing a product key, although purchasing an 1809 LTSC key I don't imagine would be that difficult and you can do an in-place upgrade from 1809 to 21H2 LSTC which retains the activation). While it's not piracy as I've just activated it with Microsoft's own KMS licensing, I would fail a Microsoft audit: but I'm neither a business nor do I use that machine for business endeavours

[Medessec]

Curious what other's plans are after support officially ends or if some are already happy with non-windows OS.

Well, Windows 10 LTSC is supported until 2032, so no worries for me

Sort of this.

When Microsoft bombards you with messages (using Windows 10 itself as a platform to tell you, no less) about how they plan to deprecate Windows 10 and that you should install Windows 11 because it's so much better, remember they were doing the same thing when Windows 8 was out, before Windows 10 was even released.

Right now, multiple sources indicate that Windows 7 has a bigger market share than even Windows 8.1's peak, and until recently was floating around an 1/8th of the market share of Windows 11... which may not sound like a lot, but the fact that so many people are persisting with Win7 even though it's long since been out of support is pretty crazy.

Windows 10 is not going out of support at a set date. It will go out of support when it best suits Microsoft, which will always change. It did for Win7, and did even for XP before that. They kept pushing updates to those OSes long after they previously announced they would. My hot take- don't worry about it. Just keep using Windows 10, ignore the noise, and if some big change happens down the line then worry about it then. As Micrex mentioned, there's Windows 10 Enterprise. Who's to say Microsoft won't just share the updates between Enterprise and the standard editions to save some money?

Personally I'd go a step further and say that Microsoft is taking advantage of the Crowdstrike mess by publicizing Win 11 more with the whole "newer is better and more secure" thing... nevermind that Windows 11 is borderline a commercial failure in comparison to Windows 10.

[dr_st]

As Micrex mentioned, there's Windows 10 Enterprise. Who's to say Microsoft won't just share the updates between Enterprise and the standard editions to save some money?

The updates will be compatible of course, just like the updates for WinXP POS could be installed on XP, Server 2008 updates on Vista, Server 2008 SP2 updates on Win7... One might need to hack the OS to accept ESU (extended service) updates without having a valid license, but it's all been done.

[micrex22]

Windows 10 is not going out of support at a set date. It will go out of support when it best suits Microsoft, which will always change. It did for Win7, and did even for XP before that. They kept pushing updates to those OSes long after they previously announced they would. My hot take- don't worry about it. Just keep using Windows 10, ignore the noise, and if some big change happens down the line then worry about it then. As Micrex mentioned, there's Windows 10 Enterprise. Who's to say Microsoft won't just share the updates between Enterprise and the standard editions to save some money?

Thing is, once the public facing Microsoft dates are announced, software developers and hardware developers tend to drop support, so the special Microsoft patches mean nothing if it's not possible to use a browser or Steam. One of the anomalies was Windows 8.x as they even got vendors to explicitly omit support despite the very same hardware working fine with 7 and 10.

I'm certain most things will still work on Windows 10 until 2026, though!

[astral]

I’ll be using a mix of Linux, W10 LTSC, and W11 LTSC. Retail windows 11 is an utter nightmare and it’s insane how much better LTSC without all the bloat is.
Of my ThinkPads that I’d consider to not be obsolete I have the following:
T430: Windows 7 and Kubuntu dual-boot
W541: Windows 8.1
T480: Windows 11 LTSC
Not sure though why Mike is saying the T420 doesn’t support Windows 10 when it did, officially even. Not sure if Lenovo provided drivers first party or not but it doesn’t really matter when Microsoft made the update available for everyone. My C2D HP Elitebook got the update through the official channel back in the day.

[TPFanatic]

T420 wound up being well-supported but officially I believe Lenovo only offered support back to the **30 generation.

Generally anything 64-bit with decent graphics can run 10 OK. My X60s with 32 bit Core Duo and GMA 950 struggled with 10, performance was a lot better with 7. I wouldn't dare try my Z60m with Pentium M and ATI X600 on 10, ironically it'd probably do better than the X60s just for the stronger graphics. Maybe 2.26 ghz PM would be faster than an LV Core Duo too in somethings. Anyway 10 is more like a fork of NT6 rather than an upgrade from it. LTSC will probably be my Windows of choice moving forward, Server is really annoying to set up on a laptop.

7 / 2008 R2 still ain't bad for basic stuff. On Thursday I did a zoom conference within Firefox 115 on the T430 running 2008 R2. I think there's "extended kernel" ways to still run the newer Firefoxes even on 7, and there's also that Redfox project. I'll unironically use 7 on a PC when I feel like it, it's just such a better experience using the tried and true.

[Medessec]

Generally anything 64-bit with decent graphics can run 10 OK. My X60s with 32 bit Core Duo and GMA 950 struggled with 10, performance was a lot better with 7. I wouldn't dare try my Z60m with Pentium M and ATI X600 on 10, ironically it'd probably do better than the X60s just for the stronger graphics. Maybe 2.26 ghz PM would be faster than an LV Core Duo too in somethings. Anyway 10 is more like a fork of NT6 rather than an upgrade from it. LTSC will probably be my Windows of choice moving forward, Server is really annoying to set up on a laptop.

With the T4x/T6x gen threshold, we discuss this a lot on the Discord and the big factor in Windows 10's performance with machines around this age and config, is storage. SATA storage on T6x makes a huge difference, particularly the SATA 2 capability with Moddleton's BIOS on X61/T61. I've also been experimenting with IDE to mSATA adapters, and it makes a huge difference in how quickly I've been able to get Windows 7 installed and brought up to date using Windows Update's automatic functions. I think with RAM usually being fairly limited, Windows 10 will use the storage drive for a lot of background functions, and ofc retail Windows 10 will be pretty stealthy about all this... so your computer may just go from being somewhat responsive enough to being pretty much unusable, suddenly and with no warning.

I've not heard any testimonies from someone who has a SATA-modded X41 or T43, I would be very curious how well Windows 7 or 10 runs on one of those.

[axur-delmeria]

I've not heard any testimonies from someone who has a SATA-modded X41 or T43, I would be very curious how well Windows 7 or 10 runs on one of those.

The closest you can get without actually having an X41 or T43 is by disabling SMP on a T60 with a Core Duo processor, or simply install a Core Solo CPU.
I'll bet it's going to be a pain due to the single-core processor.

[Medessec]

I've not heard any testimonies from someone who has a SATA-modded X41 or T43, I would be very curious how well Windows 7 or 10 runs on one of those.

The closest you can get without actually having an X41 or T43 is by disabling SMP on a T60 with a Core Duo processor, or simply install a Core Solo CPU.
I'll bet it's going to be a pain due to the single-core processor.

I suppose that would be a pretty close comparison, you'd still have other big factors beyond the platform being newer, such as the faster RAM. Against modern computing though, it wouldn't matter much, so it would be pretty educational.

It's well known though. Windows 10 may work on a T43 or X41, but even if the unit was max spec it would be a pretty rough experience. Not to mention whatever poor old Thinkpad you'd be trying it with would be probably max TDP the whole time trying to keep up. Running Windows 7 on those things though instead, is pretty much night and day, so it's pretty clear that Windows 10 is much more designed to expect to be run on something at least Dual Core and some sort of SSD Storage.

[TPFanatic]

It'll probably work fine if it's not given unbridled internet access. Consumer versions of everything are preloaded with scheduled tasks and background tasks just waiting for Internet access so they can update, update, update.... telemetry.... virus scanning too. Today's computers are just more than fast enough that all this good, desirable stuff gets done without the user ever knowing. For the majority of PC users who neither have an idea how a computer works nor do they want to know, this is perfect and makes the digital world a safer place from malware and threat actors.

For us weirdos trying to force contemporary workloads on 20 year old chipset technologies, we of course run into problems.

[Medessec]

It'll probably work fine if it's not given unbridled internet access.

Oh absolutely. Being completely offline, especially on Windows 10 will change things. This isn't something even the most hardcore Thinkpad junkie can consider for their daily machine though.

Today's computers are just more than fast enough that all this good, desirable stuff gets done without the user ever knowing. For the majority of PC users who neither have an idea how a computer works nor do they want to know, this is perfect and makes the digital world a safer place from malware and threat actors.

If your computer is capable of dealing with Windows 10's background mess, then of course it's hugely beneficial. T61 just about makes it happen, so we can be thankful for that. But the big problem (at least for me) lies in that these laptops are fantastic to use. We can try and argue that the T4x and T6x is functionally superior and 4:3 makes certain workflows much more productive (which it does)- but I'm not going to kid myself. I like trying to use and daily old machines. A bygone era where user-side configuration and repairability was still in full swing, A31p, T4x and T6x are just intriguing laptops to be around and fiddle with, being able to actually use them as any sort of a main machine is a huge bonus. Yes... there's lots of new laptops that have 3:2 screens, some that are tough like Thinkpads used to be, and some that have some configurability options, but none have the mixture of all of that into one unit as well and as perfectly as T6x. No one has made anything like T6x since. So... we have to compromise. And Windows 11 made that super clear when Microsoft had a hardline requirement for TPM 2. Sure there's ways to get around that, but Microsoft even going there at all- made it clear that they were annoyed with people using computers from over a decade ago, and wanted to push us along.

[TPFanatic]

One of the first things I do when I setup Windows now is I turn on the Firewall to block all outbound connections. That effectively offlines the computer. I add an exception for Firefox, Malwarebytes, Pycharm, FireZilla, Steam, or whatever else. But Windows is not phoning home on my PC. Look at my siggie, I even once installed Windows 7 on my A31p and enjoyed it. I am the TPFanatic and I want to join your Discord.

Also dug through Task Sched and found lots of automated background crap from Lenovo Vantage. If I didn't already purge all that on my P71 I would install Power Manager and be on my way, like on my more recently setup systems. But the P71's stable as is so I'm not messing with it anymore.

[micrex22]

I’ll be using a mix of Linux, W10 LTSC, and W11 LTSC. Retail windows 11 is an utter nightmare and it’s insane how much better LTSC without all the bloat is.
Of my ThinkPads that I’d consider to not be obsolete I have the following:
T430: Windows 7 and Kubuntu dual-boot
W541: Windows 8.1
T480: Windows 11 LTSC
Not sure though why Mike is saying the T420 doesn’t support Windows 10 when it did, officially even. Not sure if Lenovo provided drivers first party or not but it doesn’t really matter when Microsoft made the update available for everyone. My C2D HP Elitebook got the update through the official channel back in the day.

Yeah I only ever install LTSC, regular home/pro is so much more bloated.

If a Pentium 4 can run Windows 10 (and 11), a T420 should be able to effortessly :p

[ajkula66]

I'm still running W7 on my daily used T440p.
No updates since 2018, still going strong!

Pretty much the same here, only I'm still on T520. No 6-row keyboards for me, ever.

Unless you do not go online I wouldn't run a OS post-security updates, re Windows 7 comment above. You are just asking to be pwnd, and you won't necessarily even know it because who has time to track all the CVNs and their implications.

You wouldn't and that's fine. Some of us feel/know differently.

@Medessec:

I ran W7 on a T43p (SATA-modded by RBS) with an Intel SSD and while it was usable, the user experience left a lot to be desired. Now, install W2K on the same system and watch it fly...finding a working browser might be an issue, though. I had to go with a very old Firefox when I was toying around with that concept.

[micrex22]

I ran W7 on a T43p (SATA-modded by RBS) with an Intel SSD and while it was usable, the user experience left a lot to be desired. Now, install W2K on the same system and watch it fly...finding a working browser might be an issue, though. I had to go with a very old Firefox when I was toying around with that concept.

I think Roy Tam's "serpent" fork of Pale Moon works on W2K? I know it works on XP, that's how I logged into Discord from XP & Vista... just for fun because I could
https://rtfreesoft.blogspot.com/search/label/browser

Forum Thread about it all is here:
https://msfn.org/board/topic/184051-my- ... ds-part-4/

Enjoy.

EDIT: I think it may be the RetroZilla browser that he builds for W2K?
https://github.com/roytam1/RetroZilla